Action Report Short Barreled 22 VS Mule Deer

Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
3,026
Reaction score
7,313
Location
Mountains of Colorado
There has been much talk about 22 long rifles as a defensible caliber especially in short barreled guns. I will often try out different guns, calibers & bullets on recently deceased big game. I feel that this is as honest a test that is available. No gel blocks, clay blocks, water jugs or folded levis. This way you get a more real test through real hair, hide and body parts. This year I used a Walther TPH 22 LR and CCI Stingers. I shot 2 into the lung cavity of a mule deer buck that had been dead less than a minute. Range of shots about 10'. Both bullets made it to the opposite side and were stuck in the muscle under the skin. No bones encountered. Penetration was 13" and the deer had heavy winter coat. The wounds were very impressive however I will not show photos for sensibility sake. I will however email them if someone is interested in seeing them. Recovered bullet weighed 30 grains. The barrel length from the bullet inside the chamber to the end of the muzzle was only 1 1/2". One bullet was accidently lost. I believe in the photos that follow, the controversy of a bullet shot from a short barrel being capable of expanding at reduced velocity has been answered.
Photo 1.jpg

Photo 2.jpg

Photo 3.jpg
 
Register to hide this ad
I'm going to want to see those photos but, first, I want to clarify something.

Is it your understanding that your test - a .22 LR shot at a distance of 10 feet into the chest cavity of a winter coated mule deer - proves that a .22 is a satisfactory round for self defense purposes?

I'm not arguing - I just want to be certain that's the case that you're making. I think I kinda like it which is why I need to be sure. ;)
 
In a defensive situation I want the bullets to stop the actions of the actor. The fact that he dies at the hospital is not my immediate concern. In other words if you shot the deer with the TPH would he have dropped right there.
 
Last edited:
In a defensive situation I want the bullets to stop the actions of the actor. The fact that he dies at the hospital is not my immediate concern. In other words if you shot the deer with the TPH would he have dropped right there.

That is always the question. Unlike police officers that are required to take the perp off the street and into handcuffs or body bag. As civilians all we require is the ability to have the bad guy break contact with us. There are variables. Knew on big bruiser that took a 25 ACP to the chest and fall over forever and another friend that carried a large scar across his chest. When asking about the scar he stated this is what happens when you shoot a Japanese soldier twice with a 45 ACP and he has a bayonet. Every situation is different.
 
Last edited:
I spent 17 of my 25 years in the FBI working violent crimes on Indian reservations in the wild west. Most murders were done with knives, rocks, fists, feet, gravity, vehicles, and hand tools. Maybe a third involved firearms, and the vast majority of those were .22s of some sort, generally the Marlin Model 60 but some handguns.

Every single one with a .22 rifle was fatal. Most dropped right away, but those that didn’t stopped doing whatever it was that lead to getting shot in the first place. Most of my fellow Indian Country agent buddies had the same experience.

I did have a guy take a .22 Magnum round from a cheap German revolver square in the upper lip. He spit it out with some teeth, changed his DV plans, and drove himself to the hospital.

Getting shot with anything seems to be a religious experience. Caliber is mostly irrelevant.

I already have my geezer-gun picked out. A lovely Beretta Model 87, in .22 Long Rifle of course.

Ok, somebody post the picture of the Native lady with the giant bear skin.
 
I do not advocate .22s for self defense or hunting big game but it would beat a stern warning. It might also identify your killer. Besides, the Inuit lady used a .22 Long, I think..........
 
Last edited:
Old_Cop;141308982 In other words if you shot the deer with the TPH would he have dropped right there.[/QUOTE said:
My experience after well over 100 deer is the only time a deer drops right there is a brain or spine shot and the size of the bullet doesn't matter. A deer shot anywhere else even with a 180 gr. 30-06 at the best is a 50-100 yd. run. Larry
 
My experience after well over 100 deer is the only time a deer drops right there is a brain or spine shot and the size of the bullet doesn't matter. A deer shot anywhere else even with a 180 gr. 30-06 at the best is a 50-100 yd. run. Larry


This thread I started seems to have rapidly expanded past its purpose. Your experience are very similar to mine. During my big game hunting career and big game guiding career I have seen quite a lot of game shot. Over 100 elk alone. Last years antelope shot with a 30-06 and 165 grain ammo was a prime example of what you said. At the shot it took off running @200 yards it stopped and looked back over its shoulder. My companions laughed at my poor shooting when it fell over. Perfect broadside lung shot and no reaction to the hit.
 
My experience after well over 100 deer is the only time a deer drops right there is a brain or spine shot and the size of the bullet doesn't matter. A deer shot anywhere else even with a 180 gr. 30-06 at the best is a 50-100 yd. run. Larry

If the deer is relaxed and does not know of any danger...........
its muscles will be relaxed and my last Nevada buck was rattleing horns with
another small buck in play, that was up hill from him and when my
140 gr 270 bullet hit him behind the shoulder, his head went up in the air,
and over his butt and hit the ground on his back facing the other way, and never moved.
 
If the deer is relaxed and does not know of any danger...........
its muscles will be relaxed and my last Nevada buck was rattleing horns with
another small buck in play, that was up hill from him and when my
140 gr 270 bullet hit him behind the shoulder, his head went up in the air,
and over his butt and hit the ground on his back facing the other way, and never moved.

I agree. I've killed a few whitetail that just fell over dead after a shot in the chest. Some run, some don't.
 
I did have a guy take a .22 Magnum round from a cheap German revolver square in the upper lip. He spit it out.

A friend and I were shooting 22's in a junk yard. He had a Ruger semi-auto. I had an S&W revolver. We were shooting the same ammo. His would penetrate metal that mine would just dent.

The furthest I've ever dropped a deer - in its tracks - was 80 yards, with a 22 rifle. Head shot.
 
Last edited:
I spent 17 of my 25 years in the FBI working violent crimes on Indian reservations in the wild west. Most murders were done with knives, rocks, fists, feet, gravity, vehicles, and hand tools. Maybe a third involved firearms, and the vast majority of those were .22s of some sort, generally the Marlin Model 60 but some handguns. /QUOTE]

This correlates will with the FBI murder statistics FBI — Table 20

I love those stats as they illustrate very well that evil black rifles aren't used to kill people very often.

But the data IS only as good as the reporting states' records.
 
Last edited:
22LR would not be my first choice of defensive caliber, but they can be quite effective. I'd feel better about my chances knowing that I could put several in the thoracic cavity or one in the brain pan 100% of the time than with a larger caliber that I could not control and would be likely to miss my target. The take home advice is to equip yourself with what is reliable and gives you the greatest chance of putting rounds where they need to go.
 
I did have a guy take a .22 Magnum round from a cheap German revolver square in the upper lip. He spit it out with some teeth, changed his DV plans, and drove himself to the hospital.

It must have been Jaws with the steel teeth from the James Bond movies. I know a guy who's killed a number of black bears with a 22 magnum. There headshots after the dogs tree the bear, but they normally fall out dead.
 
One of the captains in our sports fishing fleet during the mid 70's, Don, was a Marine Silver Star winner in Korea. One very early morning in the coffee shop before loading our boats, asked him how he won the Star. Don, a hella big dude, put down his coffee, stood up, and pulled his heavy wool shirt and T-shirt off...he had 3 big scar holes in the front torso, when he turned around the heavily scarred exit wounds on his back were twice the size.
"WTH Don?"
"Charged a machine gun nest that had my squad pinned down. Woke up in a hospital two weeks later, survivors in my squad told me I had killed everyone in the nest after getting tagged. Was in the hospital for six months, doc's said I should never had made it."
Don't think .22's would have immediately stopped Don.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top