Advice on a Colt 1911 in 9mm or 38 super please

[JRB416]

I'm leaning towards the .38 Super because I've never owned one, and other than .45 ACP in a Colt 1911, it seems the most traditional. The consensus seems to be Colt is making a pretty good pistol at this time so I will probably stay with a Colt.

Thank you members for all of your comments!

 

[Doug M.]

The Super .38 is a very good caliber and I am interested in a 1911 chambered in it. The fiscal reality is that I have far more important uses for my money and the performance envelope is close to other platforms I have. It has long been my understanding that the .Super .38 will work more reliably than 9mm under most conditions and with less effort. Modern manufacturers have improved on that, but I admit that if I want a 1911 in 9mm I would look hard at the EMP as it has been scaled for the 9mm.
I have a Wilson KZ9, which initially needed some magazine work (done at Wilson with my feedback) after which it has been a great platform and very reliable with stout duty/carry ammo.

 

[chief38]

The current crop of Colt 1911's are excellent! I have a 38 super but would not recommend getting one only because the ammo is expensive and hard to find unless you reload it yourself.

I would highly recommend getting the Colt 1911 in the traditional 45acp. To me, even though they are made in 9mm, the 45acp is the classic go to round for the 1911. Their 45acp Gold Cup NM is excellent!

 

[DWalt]

It is possible to use a .45 frame for 9mm and .38 Super by getting a 9mm/.38 slide, barrels, an ejector, magazines, and appropriate recoil springs. Everything you need on the same frame. I have read, but have not personally verified, that .40 S&W and 10mm barrels work OK with the 9mm/.38 slides. So you potentially can have up to a five caliber arsenal using the same frame.

 

[stansdds]

DWalt is right, it is possible, with sufficient effort, to have one receiver and multiple caliber top ends. As for 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto sharing the same slide, that's a "maybe". I'm certain that older Colt slides were pretty much caliber specific. You could convert a 38 Super slide to 9mm easily because the rim of the 38 is slightly larger than that of the 9mm, but going to 40 or 10mm was a no-go.

I currently have a new production Para Ord 9mm/38 Super slide and a Remington R1 40 S&W/10mm Auto slide on my bench. These two slides are identical in terms of materials, machining, and finish, there are only two significant differences, the roll marks and the width of the breach face. The 9mm slide has a smaller width breach face than the 10mm slide. Using 9mm or 38 Super in a 40/10mm slide is going to result in a sloppy fit of the cartridge rim to the breach face, sloppy enough that I would not recommend doing it.

 

[Krogen]

I have a couple 9mm 1911's and one in 38 Super. The 9's are good guns but they leave me somewhat nonplussed. Something isn't "cool." The 38 Super just makes me grin for some silly reason. That said, 38 Super is a handloading exercise for me. That's because of cost and that mine prefers 38 Super Comp brass instead of the standard rim configuration of ordinary brass. Why do I have the nines? In plate matches, I don't mind losing 9mm brass, especially from remanufactured (read cheap) "just gotta go bang" ammo. I'd rather not lose 38 Super Comp brass.

38 Super can be loaded pretty stout compared to 9mm. Some factory major power factor loads can be downright snappy. My 38 Super handloads are tame in comparison; comparable to 9mm.

If you're like me, OP, I'd suggest a 38 Super. If anything, it's something new to play with. And in a 1911 it carries a dose of panache, unlike the 9mm.

 

[AJ]

DWalt is right, it is possible, with sufficient effort, to have one receiver and multiple caliber top ends. As for 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto sharing the same slide, that's a "maybe". I'm certain that older Colt slides were pretty much caliber specific. You could convert a 38 Super slide to 9mm easily because the rim of the 38 is slightly larger than that of the 9mm, but going to 40 or 10mm was a no-go.

I currently have a new production Para Ord 9mm/38 Super slide and a Remington R1 40 S&W/10mm Auto slide on my bench. These two slides are identical in terms of materials, machining, and finish, there are only two significant differences, the roll marks and the width of the breach face. The 9mm slide has a smaller width breach face than the 10mm slide. Using 9mm or 38 Super in a 40/10mm slide is going to result in a sloppy fit of the cartridge rim to the breach face, sloppy enough that I would not recommend doing it.

I have three slides that I use on the same frame. One slide is from a .38 Super, I have a .38 Super barrel, a .38 Special barrel, a 9MM barrel, a 40 cal barrel and a 10MM barrel that I use in it. I also have a slide for my .45 ACP cal barrel and a slide for my Colt Conversion Unit in .22LR.

 

[AJ]

I have three slides that I use on the same frame. One slide is from a .38 Super, I have a .38 Super barrel, a .38 Special barrel, a 9MM barrel, a 40 cal barrel and a 10MM barrel that I use in it. I also have a slide for my .45 ACP cal barrel and a slide for my Colt Conversion Unit in .22LR.

Below is pictured part of what I was discussing.

 

[DWalt]

In addition to my 9mm/.38S/.45 ACP setup on a GI .45 frame, I also have a .400 CorBon barrel. Despite its being a pure handloading proposition, the.400 CB adaptation is the simplest conversion, and shoots the tightest groups, at least for me. It will do anything the 10mm or .40 S&W can do with the appropriate loads. I also have a .22 conversion but very seldom use it as I already own numerous .22 handguns so I don’t really need it.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

 

[DWalt]

I have three slides that I use on the same frame. One slide is from a .38 Super, I have a .38 Super barrel, a .38 Special barrel, a 9MM barrel, a 40 cal barrel and a 10MM barrel that I use in it. I also have a slide for my .45 ACP cal barrel and a slide for my Colt Conversion Unit in .22LR.

As I earlier said, I have read that the 9mm/.38 slide will also accommodate .40/10mm cartridges, but I have not personally verified that is correct, as I have no .40/10mm barrel to test with. Perhaps some makes of 9mm/.38 slides may and others may not. Likewise, I have read that the M1911-style .45 ACP magazines can also be used for .40/10mm ammunition but I have not verified that either.

 

[wbraswell]

I own and shoot both. If you pick one up and just start shooting I seriously doubt the ability to tell the difference between modern .38 Super ammo and 9mm. Most current .38 Super ammo is barely faster than 9mms. I also am a sucker for the "romance" of the old 38 Super guns, but chasing down your brass at the range is a real pain. Losing one, to me, is almost a tragedy, while I don't even pick up the 9s.

 

[hardluk1]

If all I wanted was a 5" 1911 as a range gun I would really rather have a 38sp version as a carry handgun a with good enough eye sight make it a 45 as loads for it can be 165gr on up for the reloader . But for some 1911's accuracy is lacking regardless of the cartridge for many standard production 1911's .

If you buy 9mm 1911 you can have a kart barrel and bushing in say 38 super fit to your 9mm 1911 it and end up a very accurate 1911 !

 

[biku324]

Fired one extensively in Manila at an indoor range near Camp Crame. It was more nicely finished than its Rock Island companions. Utterly reliable.

Reloaded ammo there is referred to as 'recorked.'

 

[BB57]

Back when I shot a lot of practical pistol competition .38 Super made limited sense as it could be hand loaded to make major power factor with less recoil than a .45 ACP and more magazine capacity.

However, unless there is a need to make major, there’s little or no justification for the .38 Super:

- 9mm ammunition is available everywhere and is as inexpensive as it gets.

- there are over 150 different 9mm Luger factory loads compared to maybe 15 or 20 for .38 Super.

- 9mm hollow point performance has improved significantly over the last 30 years and most .355” bullets are optimized for 9mm Luger velocities. The additional velocity of a .38 Super with those bullets usually just reduces penetration.

- the difference in terminal performance in a self defense shoot is minimal at best.

- self defense load options in .38 Super are limited and premium self defense loads are very hard to find.

——

The .38 Super is longer and theoretically better suited to the 1911 than the 9mm Luger, but quite frankly the concern that the 9mm Luger would never be as reliable as the .45 ACP in the 1911 was put to rest 40 years ago. Folks need to stop banging that drum now.

Now, I like the .38 Super, it’s a superior cartridge to the 9mm Luger, and I wish it had caught on in Europe and become the NATO standard. But it did not. The fact is that the .38 Super just isn’t better enough to offset the economy of scale advantages of the 9mm Luger.

 

[AJ]

Now, I like the .38 Super, it’s a superior cartridge to the 9mm Luger, and I wish it had caught on in Europe and become the NATO standard. But it did not. The fact is that the .38 Super just isn’t better enough to offset the economy of scale advantages of the 9mm Luger.

The 9MM was a going round very early in the century. The .38 Super did not come along until 1927. So the Europeans were well entrenched with the 9MM for a round and the handguns used probably would not adapt to the .38 Super. Just a couple of points to ponder.

 

[Warren Sear]

I'd go for the .38 Super for a full size 1911, as the 1911 was initially designed for .38 Super (actually, the precursor to the 1911, the M1900). 9mm is a bit short for the 1911 action, whereas the .38 Super and .45 ACP are the same OAL, or close enough. If you are going to reload and get the .38 Super, consider using Super Comp brass, as it is a true rimless case where the standard .38 Auto (Super) case is rimmed. In modern 1911's they all headspace on the case mouth anyway.

I am probably going to buy a new Colt full size, fixed sights, in 38 Super. I have never owned, or even fired, a gun in that caliber. When I order the gun I will also order a set of RCBS dies. Where can I get .38 Super Comp brass? What shellholder do I need for .38 Super Comp brass?

 

[DWalt]

Starline should have it. Same shell holder as 9mm. Use a .38 Super die set.
No real need to use any cases other than .38 SC for reloading unless you have a gun with an older .38 Super barrel that does not headspace on the case mouth. I was once told by a Starline guy that .38 SC cases are stronger and will handle high pressure loads better than .38 Super cases.

 

[BB57]

The 9MM was a going round very early in the century. The .38 Super did not come along until 1927. So the Europeans were well entrenched with the 9MM for a round and the handguns used probably would not adapt to the .38 Super. Just a couple of points to ponder.

No argument there. The length of the .38 Super worked against it in handguns other than the 1911. Even in newer handguns developed in the same era, like the Hi Power the .38 Super didn’t offer enough over the 9mm to unseat it.

I’ll argue the .38 Super peaked prior to WWII as it just didn’t offer enough advantage over the 9mm. It also didn’t offer enough over the well established .45 ACP in the US either.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I own and shoot both. If you pick one up and just start shooting I seriously doubt the ability to tell the difference between modern .38 Super ammo and 9mm. Most current .38 Super ammo is barely faster than 9mms. I also am a sucker for the "romance" of the old 38 Super guns, but chasing down your brass at the range is a real pain. Losing one, to me, is almost a tragedy, while I don't even pick up the 9s.

I agree. Although I don’t have any CZ/Colt’s I have no doubt they’re good pistols. Several years ago I bought a Colt O2991 to see what the big deal was and I really enjoy shooting it (when I can find ammo). Afterwards I bought an O1992 9mm and I enjoy shooting it too. Can you have too many 1911’s?