Advice on stainless steel J Frames and Airweight snubbies

[Boudiepitbull]

I'm beginning to research my next purchase and my first snubbie revolver. My questions are forming into a couple of different catagories of design and reliability over five models. The issue of caliber is separate one.

Of the models I'm considering, in .38 Special there is the Model 637, 638, and 642. In .357/38 Special there is the Model 60 and 640. There is also the Model 36, but we already have an early 80s Rossi clone of the Model 36 in the family.

I like both the internal hammer design of the Model 642 and the 640. Issues of caliber aside, my concern is I'm reading about a lot of people having a high rate of failure with their 642s. I don't see similar complaints about the Model 640. I'm wondering if the stainless steel J Frame is just a superior design over the aluminum Airweight?

In people's experience, does the shrouded hammer Model 638 and the open hammer Model 637 share in the same parts failure problems as the 642? Once it's fixed, does it stay fixed or do the same parts fail again?

With the Model 60 and the Model 637 we have the whole single action/double action debate, as well as the presence of the exposed hammer. The drawbacks seem to be snagging on clothing and acting like a lint trap. Really? The advantage seems to be you maintain the option and the accuracy of single action. Then again, it's a snubbie and I don't expect groups to be punching out the bullseye at 15 or 25 yards with it. On a personal note, concealed carry is not an option until I leave NY State, but it might be an option someday in years to come.

As I'm writing this I'm leaning more and more towards the Model 640 unless someone can put forth the argument that the 642 is really not as failure prone a design as some have experienced. I would also expect to pay about $200-250 more for the 640, but given enough time to save that's not really a consideration.

What do you think?

 

[caryg]

I think the 637 would fit your bill. To me the best J-frame out there. But opinions are like? well you know the story.

 

[Ashlander]

I have a 60-14. It weighs about 8 ounces more than the aluminum frame guns, but that helps a lot with follow-up shots. My favorite though is an old Model 36. It's 3 ounces lighter than the Model 60 in .357 and it's smaller. It's much easier to carry.

 

[Boudiepitbull]

I think the 637 would fit your bill. To me the best J-frame out there. But opinions are like? well you know the story.

Have you had any trouble with your 637 at all?

 

[16thVACav]

One factor that should be considered is how you plan to carry it. The J frame snubs are great for pocket carry. Where I live, I wear shorts and a tee shirt at least nine months a year, and pocket carry is what I typically do. A 642 (or another lightweight such as a 340 or 342) is light enough to almost forget it is there. A 640 - not so much. It can be pocket carried but you'll be aware of it.

If you plan to carry IWB or OWB, you might want to consider a K or L frame. To me, with IWB or OWB, K and L frames are just as easy to carry as J frames, and you pick up an additional round or two.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I own a Model 642 and 432PD - both are the Centennial design with the internal hammer, and DAO. Both are Air Weight revolvers. I've found the Centennial design has a much smoother DA trigger pull than either the exposed hammer counterparts (Model 60), or the concealed hammer Bodyguards (Model 38, 638, or 649). Primarily Air Weight revolvers have experienced the brunt of frame cracks, though I believe I have read of some occurring in the all steel framed revolvers as well. My EDC consists of a Model 38-0 and a 638-1. I haven't had any problems with any of my J-frames, and I shoot standard velocity ammo from them.

I believe the Model 442/642 have been the best sellers for S&W for the past several years. I think the simplicity of operation (literally, point and pull) and acceptable affordability in pricing are major factors in their popularity.

I would recommend staying with the .38 Special chambering in your selection. If you don't mind the extra weight, the all steel revolvers (Model 36, 60, 649, etc.) are easier to shoot. But any firearm you can and will carry is much better than the one you left behind because it was too heavy or inconvenient to carry.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[326MOD10]

I carried a 642 for the better part of 15 years as a back-up and as a pocket gun. It has been my primary (meaning it gets most of the time for carry despite having carried a Glock 26 as well) carry gun when I was off for many years.

The only issue I have ever had with it was a bulge in one of the cylinders. The funny thing is I believe it was there from day one, due to spent casings hanging up in the same cylinder, and I never really noticed it much to think it was a problem. Eventually I had the cylinder replaced, after 12 or so years, and not a snag since.

Recently I purchased a 442 PC model and have made the switch to it and have been sharing duty with a Glock 43.

I do have a 640 Pro and if you are not going to be carrying it much and it will be more of a house gun might take a look there. It has night sights and can use .357 if you feel inclined to do so.

 

[dubshooter]

If you're not going to carry, I would recommend the 640. If you are going to carry, I would recommend the 640. If you're looking for a j frame, I would recommend the 640.

I've had an airweight. I had a failure with it. I now have a 640 and it is a great gun. And it is accurate to 25 yards believe it or not. I got the 640 to be my main off duty and my BUG on duty. I will also get a 642 soon for when lightweight is really needed. But the 649 fits my bill right now

 

[Old cop]

I'm curious about the kind of failures attributed to these light J frame models. I've carried an older no lock alloy J for well over 40 years and never had any kind of failure w/any of them.

 

[dubshooter]

I had a 638 for approximately 3 months. After approximately 300 rounds the trigger got gritty, the trigger only intermittently stayed locked the rear when cocked. I sent in to smith and they sent out a new gun. I sold it to another guy on the department

 

[Bill In Texas]

Have you had any trouble with your 637 at all?

My 637-2 is a 2011 model.. There have been no issues with it at all. It gets carried daily, mostly as a bug. I do pocket carry it when need be. I like the hammer, and while I see the potential for snagging, training yourself to cover the hammer with the thumb upon drawing, and a good pocket holster negate some of those negatives.

My daily carry is a 60 Pro Series owb. It's really to big for pocket carry with a 3" barrel. I shoot both of these guns well. That being said, I can see myself owning a 640 Pro Series someday. Hope this helped!

 

[regalsc]

I'm in my 60's & for me at work all day I chose a light one. I found a nib 337ti . At 10.8 oz unloaded I hardly know it's there. Loaded maybe 13oz don't really know. Action is the best I personally have ever felt on a J frame. I've had the airlite no lock 340pd & the 357 rounds were too much for me & the action was so heavy compared to my 337ti. To each their own.

 

[caryg]

Have you had any trouble with your 637 at all?

None at all. If you like a hammer and you like to carry light, best gun out there period.

 

[joel0711]

Had problems with 642's aluminum hammer/trigger studs breaking. Cant be fixed,frame must be replaced.... I now have a model 60 .357,2.1in barrel...
Is it heavier----yep---- Is it a better revolver than 642's-- probably not-- but I'm sure glad I went the stainless steel route instead of another aluminum replacement---- Steel for me from now on---

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

What do you think?

I think I fell through a hole in Alice in Wonderland. What are these frequent problems with the 642 that you are referring to? Why have I not heard about them? I have been playing with S&W revolvers for more than fifty years, have owned a greater number than that, and have had problems with two or three in that time. Maybe I need to spend more time on the net, to learn what's going on. Seriously. I know you have a reason for thinking what you posted, but I somehow missed it. Are there some threads or other reports you could point me to?

Thanks.

 

[Boudiepitbull]

Start with:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/481157-broke-my-new-442-airweight.html

There are accounts of failures in different threads scattered all over this forum, even some in this thread if you scroll back (there are two directly above your post if you look). I promise you I didn't imagine it or make this up. I just don't have time to search the forum for you and present it in a tidy little package. What I can say is, with out even looking and just randomly reading the forum in the last few days, I saw enough of the same complaints about the Airweights that I felt the need to ask questions to better educate myself about a potential problem before making a decision to purchase one or not.

 

[jscott]

Been packing 45 years, 30 as police in South Florida. It's hot, but I go for the heaviest piece that I can carry comfortably and access quickly, and dress around it. This eliminates air weight pocket guns. And it seems that the older I get the bigger gun I carry, because the more mass the gun has the better I shoot it. Everyone is different and has different needs, but I can tell you that when the shooting starts you'd wish you had a cannon.

 

[AlHunt]

I do not see a LE badge near your name so I'm assuming any future CC will be as a comparatively untrained citizen. Based on that:

Avoid an open hammer. Eliminate the possibility, however remote you consider it, of snagging that open hammer at the very moment when the excrement hits the fan. If you NEED that weapon, it will almost certainly be because you've been ambushed. You won't have the luxury of snaking you hand into your pocket and getting ready to draw. It'll be because some thug has jumped from the shadows and grabbed you or a loved one and you're fighting for your and/or their lives. You will want maximum chance of survival.

Just my view. YMMV.

 

[smitty_bs]

I have both an M60 with a 2 1/8 bbl in .357 and an M642. I really like them both and shoot them both well. I no longer shoot .357 in the M60 - just too much muzzle blast. Likewise the M642 can be a handfull with 158gr 38 +Ps.

I generally shoot various +Ps in the M60 and 148gr wadcutters in the M642. Been pleased with this arrangement.

I am however considering replacing the front sight of the M60 with an XS Big Dot. That sight is pinned so it is likely going to happen. The M642 front sight is milled as part of the barrel so I'll talk to a gunsmith about that and it may be cost prohibitive.

Anyway I like and shoot both guns. Very pleased and not sure you could go wrong. The 640 Pro may fit your bill. Good sights and no exposed hammer, but it is somewhat heavier. Good luck!

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Hi Boudiepitbull,

I'll offer a couple of thoughts that haven't been aired yet (in this thread, at least).

I see the issue (your term) of caliber as part and parcel to the decision. If you buy a .357 you can always shoot .38s or .38+Ps. If you buy a .38 you can never shoot .357s, which many knowledgeable and experienced folks here say is ok by them.

I carried OWB a 60 (.357) with a 2⅛" barrel and replaced it with an M&P 340 with a 1⅞" barrel. I much prefer the Centennial model, although I haven't pushed any .357 ammo through it yet. Going back to my original reasons for wanting a 60, combined with my preference for the Centennial, I recently bought a NIB 640-1 Pro.

I like everything about the 640 Pro: moon clips; windage adjustable, triple night sights; 2⅛" barrel (with shrouded, full-length extractor rod); and even its extra half pound. (I'm 6'4" and in the 230 lb range. My weight can easily vary by a half pound on any given day so the laboriously extolled merits of airweights as OWB cc guns are often lost on me, but I wear flannel shirts in which I can comfortably cc my 340 -- NY speed loader -- in one of the breast pockets.)

Barbara carries a 360PD, which I believe deserves consideration if weight has to be a factor. Using its single action its just plain fun to shoot, but I must admit -- as others on this forum have -- the dao guns have made me a far better shooter.

Many of the legal beagles in our mongst have suggested a dao Centennial, if used out of defensive necessity, sells better in the courtroom. I hope never to test that theory.

So many j's to choose from -- many not mentioned here! The new Performance Center 442 is mighty enticing.

Best of luck with your decision,

Bob