After Being Inside A Super Bearcat

[Cdog]

I really enjoy tinkering. I reckon I've developed a reputation of being that guy. "Let's take it to Cdog and see what he can do with it."

Let me preface this with "I'm not here to bash Ruger." I own several and enjoy them all.

I was recently brought a stainless adjustable sight Ruger Bearcat for inspection. It's properly named cause it's a bear to back the hammer on. To match that the trigger is atrocious. It's heavy with a lot of creep the backs the hammer a bit before breaking.

For those unfamiliar with them they're a bit different than what I'm accustomed to seeing inside a single action revolver.

It does have a separate trigger return spring, but it's pretty much a mainspring operated revolver.

The reason I felt the need to post about this little adventure about this is what I found inside. I've been in more than a few Ruger Blackhawks Redhawks, GP's etc, so I've seen poorly machined innards before. I however have not seen an entire weapon with razor like edges on most of the internal parts. No exaggeration, sharp edges, and proud places throughout.

I spent quite some time just smoothing edges before ever attempting any action work.

To say that I'm disappointed with what I found is an understatement. I hope this one is an exception and not the norm for these today.

 

[Echo40]

A guy named Cdog talking about being inside of a bearcat... I feel like I took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on a very different kind of forum.

Joking aside, in my admittedly limited experience, Ruger doesn't put much effort into the machining of their firearms these days, and relies mainly on investment casting and CNC machining to do the job.
Sure, if it doesn't impede function, then I can see why a manufacturer might neglect to smooth out the edges on the inside of a firearm, but when manufacturers of cheaper firearms like Taurus put more effort into smoothing things out, it just doesn't reflect well on them.

Honestly, as reliable as it is, my Ruger LCP easily has some of the roughest fit/finish of any firearm that I own, and it's a 10th Anniversary Limited Edition model! The inside of the slide is made up of tool marks, rough edges, and uneven surfaces.
Meanwhile, my Smith & Wesson Sigma SW40VE, which is a budget-priced firearm has zero toolmarks inside the slide and is well machined throughout. In addition, my Taurus PT92 AFS-D is easily one of the smoothest firearms that I own, with absolutely no sharp edges and only a few small toolmarks.

 

[TJm15.38]

Your report on the Bearcat is a bit disturbing. I've always considered Ruger to be a quality manufacturer of fine firearms. However, quality control comes into question based on the rough internals that your mentioned. I bought a Wrangler in 2019, and although it is a decent little revolver, it is not near the fit and finish of my 1960's Old Model Single Six. Everything is being made by computers and machines these days. If the process is good and is closely monitored for consistency with good quality control, then things like you mentioned shouldn't happen.

 

[Cdog]

A guy named Cdog talking about being inside of a bearcat... I feel like I took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on a very different kind of forum.

My choose of words never once crossed my mind. I can't believe I didn't catch it. I'm slipping!

Best laugh I've had in a while.

 

[Goony]

I'd remark that even the older Bearcats (1973 and earlier) have something of a reputation for their actions being a bit fragile and too likely to get out of order.

 

[2152hq]

The NM Bearcat has a Mainspring, a Trigger spring, Hand spring, Cylinder bolt spring...not unlike most any SAA revolver.
The mechanism is their transfer bar system which is unlike most common SA revolvers.
The springs are all coil.

If you capture the mainspring on it's follower and base in the compressed position with a small pin or nail through the hole,,the hammer disassembly and re-assembly is easy. No fighting the spring tension.
The other parts go back together easily.

I agree the insides are rough on the NM's I have seen.
I don't particularly like the NM Rugers in general. It's just a personal thing. I like the 3 screw actions.
But there is no excuse for the rough machining I have seen on the few I have had apart.

Since I assume in this day and age, machining is done by CNC,,that portion of the process can go as well as the program and machinery can provide.
The tooling itself (cutting bits) can be overused and run well passed their life w/o being replaced or sharpened and that is my guess for the rough work. Bumped up Speeds&Feeds to increase production can cause rough surfaces as well.
Simple time=money I suppose.
Move 'em out the door. It works don't it...

The only way sharp edges w/burrs on them are removed in mfg'g settings these days in mass production are thru vibratory means.
That's an extra step, expensive equipment, money and time.
If it runs w/o it,,money saved.


A sear engagement that is in the slight negative (the pull cams the hammer to the rear to disengage) may actually be something they set up that way.
It would be easy to have the parts precision cut & ground to any angle, just program it that way.
I doubt the assembly of the guns is supposed to require any hands on adjustment of sear surfaces at the bench. Just 'assemble' and perhaps a quick check w/a trigger gauge. If it's above a certain pound pull,,it's good to go.
Corporate Lawyers at work to save lives.

 

[Cdog]

Your report on the Bearcat is a bit disturbing. I've always considered Ruger to be a quality manufacturer of fine firearms. However, quality control comes into question based on the rough internals that your mentioned. I bought a Wrangler in 2019, and although it is a decent little revolver, it is not near the fit and finish of my 1960's Old Model Single Six. Everything is being made by computers and machines these days. If the process is good and is closely monitored for consistency with good quality control, then things like you mentioned shouldn't happen.

I've got two Wrangler revolvers and design wise they're very much like a New Model Single Six. As you know they have fairly heavy mainsprings and creep filled triggers. My two contain parts that when compared with the finish of the Bearcat parts are lot more refined. One of my Wranglers is a couple or three years old the second one I picked up on sale just a few months back. Little if any difference in the two. I just remembered the steel on the Wrangler hammers being well hardened. The Bearcat hammer seems a bit softer.

I put a Wolff 17# mainspring in the first one, and an 18# spring with a couple rounds removed in the second one. The OEM springs are around 23#. Both have 30oz trigger return springs.

I honed the hammers using India stones (Removed that infamous hammer ramp) and polished up the triggers. No I didn't get them as slick as a well tuned Colt SAA, but they're a sight closer to one than I ever imagined they would be. Springs included I don't have more than $350 or so in the pair. My only complaint with one is the silver front sight. My older eyes can't readily distinguish it from the rear cut. Got to get some appliance paint and see how well it'll stick to the cerakote finish. The other is all black.

I spent a lot more time on the Bearcat. A lot of what I did wasn't necessary to improve the action, I simply wanted to do it. (Part of it is I don't want someone else to look inside and see that I'd left it sharp and lumpy.)

On a side note, I don't recommend honing any of the fire control parts without a jig. It's to easy to go too far or leave an uneven surface when done by hand. Polish all you want! I ain't into hairy triggered unsafe firearms!

 

[Cdog]

The NM Bearcat has a Mainspring, a Trigger spring, Hand spring, Cylinder bolt spring...not unlike most any SAA revolver.
The mechanism is their transfer bar system which is unlike most common SA revolvers.
The springs are all coil.

If you capture the mainspring on it's follower and base in the compressed position with a small pin or nail through the hole,,the hammer disassembly and re-assembly is easy. No fighting the spring tension.
The other parts go back together easily.

I agree the insides are rough on the NM's I have seen.
I don't particularly like the NM Rugers in general. It's just a personal thing. I like the 3 screw actions.
But there is no excuse for the rough machining I have seen on the few I have had apart.

Since I assume in this day and age, machining is done by CNC,,that portion of the process can go as well as the program and machinery can provide.
The tooling itself (cutting bits) can be overused and run well passed their life w/o being replaced or sharpened and that is my guess for the rough work. Bumped up Speeds&Feeds to increase production can cause rough surfaces as well.
Simple time=money I suppose.
Move 'em out the door. It works don't it...

The only way sharp edges w/burrs on them are removed in mfg'g settings these days in mass production are thru vibratory means.
That's an extra step, expensive equipment, money and time.
If it runs w/o it,,money saved.


A sear engagement that is in the slight negative (the pull cams the hammer to the rear to disengage) may actually be something they set up that way.
It would be easy to have the parts precision cut & ground to any angle, just program it that way.
I doubt the assembly of the guns is supposed to require any hands on adjustment of sear surfaces at the bench. Just 'assemble' and perhaps a quick check w/a trigger gauge. If it's above a certain pound pull,,it's good to go.
Corporate Lawyers at work to save lives.

I guess I should have made myself clearer concerning the springs. My one spring statement was directed at the action stiffness and trigger pull. The trigger return spring does its job, but I don't think it plays much of a role in the overall action feel.

There's a single set screw that's only job I saw was hand spring retention. It's a different animal.

 

[LVSteve]

Welcome to the 21st century production where you can have all kinds of edges and machine marks provided they don't interfere with operation. I call it the Kalashnikov business model.

 

[dsf]

I have a fair amount of Rugers - revolvers mostly, a few #1 rifles and half dozen bolts, Minis, etc. The "economizing" Ruger has done in fit and finish is very disappointing. The guns generally work fine, but absolutely horrible workmanship on the insides. Grips and exterior finish has really taken a beating.

I haven't seen the Marlin brand from Ruger, I definitely wouldn't buy one on line. Would have to see it "in person" so to speak.

 

[Drm50]

Have never had to get into Bearcat of any age but many Blackhawks and never found them lacking internal finishing. They aren’t what they use to be but nothing is.
When Remington came out with their 1911 series pistols I had to assemble one, unfired in a sack. Brand new, guy stripped to clean before 1st firing and couldn’t get it back together. Was WW2 vet and I figured he just forgot how. Interior of slide looked like it was machined with an garden hoe. Link
looked like it was punched hot. Worst gun for internal finish I’ve ever seen.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Several years ago (1990's) I was going to sell my 8 3/8 29 Classic to a friend. When I got to his house, he'd already bought a 44 mag Super Redhawk and installed a spring kit.

The RedHawks' action was terrible compared to the 29 Classic! When he tried the 29's DA he started to cry! So, being a friend, I grabbed my travel gunsmithing box, we put a upside down piece of Christmas wrapping paper on the dinning room table and disassembled the Redhawk.

Using dental picks, a small sharpening stone and jeweler's files, we cleaned all the burrs out and polished all the machine marks off the flat surfaces! We reassembled the Redhawk ant tested the action. With the Wolff spring kit and pseudo action job it came out about 90 to 95% as smooth as a factory 29!

I cleaned up my tools, and we took the paper and poured all the tailings in a pile. They would fill a pop bottle cap! That is a lot of scrap metal to have inside a gun's action!

I see not a lot has changed in 30 years!

However, I own 4 Old Model Vaqueros and have had them all apart, and never found any poor machining! Different employee or just a different time?

Ivan