AH Fox & Colt

[Capt. F.]

Elderly friend is selling out his collection.
He has a 1923 AH Fox Grade A 12 gauge, English straight stock.
Gun is 90%, clean bores.
He also has a 1939 Colt Woodsman 1st issue 4 1/2", 2 magazines
also about 90%.
Told me $1800 firm for both guns and will give me 1st refusal.
Thoughts?

 

[H Richard]

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, providing the mechanics are O.K. You might want to check the chambers on the Fox, many in that era were 2 1/2" rather than 2 3/4".

 

[2152hq]

The AH Fox should be a 'Philadelphia' Fox. By that I mean the bbl address should say that.

BBl length makes a difference of late in value.
The 'must have' lately for the SxS set is long bbl's. Short bbl's are not in vogue at the moment for reasons unkn.
The shooters what 30, 32" bbled SxS's.
The 26" bbld guns are in less demand.
28" bbled guns will sell if priced right.
Buying it for yourself, the above can make no difference at all.

Fox never marked what chokes the bbls were. But obvious alterations are not appreciated by most buyers.
The 'bbl weight' is indicated on the bottom of each tube just ahead of the bbl flat on the bottom. #1 thru #4. Sometimes hard to read as the numberwas stamped before the tubes were final struck (filed down) for weight). #1 is the heaviest,,#4 is the lightest weight bbl.

Fox 12ga chambers were cut 2 5/8" at the time. They purposely cut them to that length for the 2 3/4" 12ga shell. They felt it gave better performance and pattern.

A true English stock should have a full length 'tang' on the trigger guard with the hand cut ser# in place.
Often if a gun is altered outside the factory from a pistol grip stock to a straight grip, they will just take the orig short tang pistol grip guard and straighten it out and reinlet it.
The short tang TG is a giveaway to an after market straight grip stock job on a Graded AH Fox.

IF the ser#'s match on the frame. forend and bbls.,,the butt stock is a true Factory English straight grip stock and not an aftermarket alteration,, the mechanics are excl'nt with no issues (safety works, bbls are not 'Off Face", bbls are not cut and are orig length,,no refinish to the metal or the wood surfaces...
Then the AH Fox is worth about what the asking price is for the 2 guns.


That's a retail price. You won't get that $$ taking the gun to Cabellas and flipping it for cash of course. But a true90% orig condition A-Grade extractor Philly AHFox in 12ga w/a Factory English butt stock and orig butt plate (the straight grip stock would have been special order) will usually get priced betw $1500 and $2000 on most dealers tables at a gun show.
Add Ejectors to the mix and the gun would skip upwards another $500 to $700.

 

[gregintenn]

If I wanted them, I'd jump on that deal assuming they passed my personal inspection.

 

[LostintheOzone]

A few more tips. Check the barrels for 1) cut from original length and 2) lose ribs. Cut barrels will be very close together at the muzzle. A lose rib can be found by holding the barrels by the lump (free to swing) and thumping the barrels with a finger. If there isn't a bell ringing sound the ribs are lose and will need to be reset.

If everything is in order I would say the Fox is worth around $1200. The problem is classic sxs shotguns are losing value every year. I had a very pristine field grade L C Smith 20 ga, with case colors, probably 95% that took forever to sell. I finally got $1150 for it. Some bird hunters and a few collectors out there, but not many. Unless you're actually going to use it, I wouldn't buy it for an investment.

Most people don't recognize that Fox was a high quality shotgun in it's day and demanded a premium price over the competition.

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/H-Fox-Finest-Gun-World/dp/092435724X/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=092435724X&psc=1[/ame]

 

[2152hq]

A Grade (extractor) AH Fox guns aren't really in the investment catagory. Unless they are really something special due to special order details or past ownership, they are just a fine AHF shotgun. The lowest of the Graded AHF shotguns.
Aside from the A&D forend latch, and the added engraving, better wood & checkering to make it an A grade, it's the same gun as the Sterlingworth.
Same parts inside. The frame has a bit of shaping done to it on the outside that the SW didn't have.
But none of the rebatted frame cuts unless special ordered. Those don't show up till the X Grade as a rule.
But $$ could get you anything in those times.
...F Grade wood on an A Grade if you wanted it so. There's a couple of those around.

Most all the 'build cards' are still around for the AHF. They will show what the gun was made as when it left the factory. Any spec order features, plus common things like chokes, stock dims and such at times. Many of the notations are hand written and hard to read some not legible at all.
Some cards are just plain with nothing special at all on them.

It's very true that the vintage SxS's have fallen off in value of late. The 90's and early 2000's were the high value days. Since then many either came to their senses or the buyers died, lost interest or moved on to plastic guns.

True high grade orig condition SxS's still bring high prices. But the days of just anything with 2 bbls side by side being fought over at a show seem to be gone at least for now.

Lots of nice SxS's for sale but the bottom hasn't completely fallen out.
An AHF such as this is still in the mix if orig at 90% in 1500 to 2000 range. That's not a bad price for a seller nor a buyer in todays gun market for what things made of plastic and carbon fibre go go.
But then I like the classic stuff much more than the new wiz-bang guns anyway.

Buying to make money long term?,,never. Too many variables not under my control.
I buy what I like and for my amusement and use...now.
If I sell sometimes I make some money, sometimes break even, hopefully I don't loose too much.

 

[S&W ucla]

Colt Woodsman sport, 1st series, all original 90% finish, grips, and 2 mags would likely bring $600.+ Colt sold 4.5" barrels and quite a few targets had barrel swaps. Both mags should be 2 tone and have Colt markings on floorplate. Pictures would really help. Good luck!

 

[Capt. F.]

The AH Fox should be a 'Philadelphia' Fox. By that I mean the bbl address should say that.

BBl length makes a difference of late in value.
The 'must have' lately for the SxS set is long bbl's. Short bbl's are not in vogue at the moment for reasons unkn.
The shooters what 30, 32" bbled SxS's.
The 26" bbld guns are in less demand.
28" bbled guns will sell if priced right.
Buying it for yourself, the above can make no difference at all.

Fox never marked what chokes the bbls were. But obvious alterations are not appreciated by most buyers.
The 'bbl weight' is indicated on the bottom of each tube just ahead of the bbl flat on the bottom. #1 thru #4. Sometimes hard to read as the numberwas stamped before the tubes were final struck (filed down) for weight). #1 is the heaviest,,#4 is the lightest weight bbl.

Fox 12ga chambers were cut 2 5/8" at the time. They purposely cut them to that length for the 2 3/4" 12ga shell. They felt it gave better performance and pattern.

A true English stock should have a full length 'tang' on the trigger guard with the hand cut ser# in place.
Often if a gun is altered outside the factory from a pistol grip stock to a straight grip, they will just take the orig short tang pistol grip guard and straighten it out and reinlet it.
The short tang TG is a giveaway to an after market straight grip stock job on a Graded AH Fox.

IF the ser#'s match on the frame. forend and bbls.,,the butt stock is a true Factory English straight grip stock and not an aftermarket alteration,, the mechanics are excl'nt with no issues (safety works, bbls are not 'Off Face", bbls are not cut and are orig length,,no refinish to the metal or the wood surfaces...
Then the AH Fox is worth about what the asking price is for the 2 guns.


That's a retail price. You won't get that $$ taking the gun to Cabellas and flipping it for cash of course. But a true90% orig condition A-Grade extractor Philly AHFox in 12ga w/a Factory English butt stock and orig butt plate (the straight grip stock would have been special order) will usually get priced betw $1500 and $2000 on most dealers tables at a gun show.
Add Ejectors to the mix and the gun would skip upwards another $500 to $700.

Thanks for the wealth of info you supplied. The gun does check out including the long tang and serial number on the tang.
Not buying the guns to resell. Just to own.
Based on your info and the fact I appreciate hand built guns I'm "pulling the trigger" on these.