I carry as a retired LEO which also means I have to qualify yearly. I've been carrying a M60 since I retired but thought I'd like to have something lighter and picked up the little Ruger 380 for pocket carry. I don't have a problem qualifying with either gun. However, the 380 doesn't give me a lot of confidence in certain areas of town. So I picked up a new Airweight and took it to the range. I've owned and shot a lot of snubbies and they normally hit pretty close to where I aim but not my Airweight. At 15 yards it was hitting 3-4 inches high and 5-6 inches to the left. I figured no way the sights can be that far off it had to be me. So I slow fired the gun SA from a rest same thing. I next tried it at twenty five yards, SA slow fire from a rest on a silhouette target. All the shots hit in the upper right shoulder outside the eight ring. Only shots inside the eight ring count in qualification. There is no way shooting timed rapid fire I'll ever be able to pass qualification with this gun. My little 380 is lighter with just a nub of a sight but I have no trouble keeping the rounds upper center mass. I don't know if I should send it in to S&W or trade it off, I'd like to keep it cause it sure rides nice in a pocket holster in my front pocket.
Airweight Blues
- Thread starter Mattkcc
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badam0112
Member
I am about as accurate with my 442. I am willing to sacrifice pin point accuracy for easy concealability. These guns are made for up close and personal encounters. But I trust that it will go bang every time.
Might be a problem with that particular airweight. Which model? I also qualify yearly and have experienced no problems whatsoever....even from the 25. That's with my 642.
Be safe.
QUOTE=Mattkcc;135659731]I carry as a retired LEO which also means I have to qualify yearly. I've been carrying a M60 since I retired but thought I'd like to have something lighter and picked up the little Ruger 380 for pocket carry. I don't have a problem qualifying with either gun. However, the 380 doesn't give me a lot of confidence in certain areas of town. So I picked up a new Airweight and took it to the range. I've owned and shot a lot of snubbies and they normally hit pretty close to where I aim but not my Airweight. At 15 yards it was hitting 3-4 inches high and 5-6 inches to the left. I figured no way the sights can be that far off it had to be me. So I slow fired the gun SA from a rest same thing. I next tried it at twenty five yards, SA slow fire from a rest on a silhouette target. All the shots hit in the upper right shoulder outside the eight ring. Only shots inside the eight ring count in qualification. There is no way shooting timed rapid fire I'll ever be able to pass qualification with this gun. My little 380 is lighter with just a nub of a sight but I have no trouble keeping the rounds upper center mass. I don't know if I should send it in to S&W or trade it off, I'd like to keep it cause it sure rides nice in a pocket holster in my front pocket.[/QUOTE]
Be safe.
QUOTE=Mattkcc;135659731]I carry as a retired LEO which also means I have to qualify yearly. I've been carrying a M60 since I retired but thought I'd like to have something lighter and picked up the little Ruger 380 for pocket carry. I don't have a problem qualifying with either gun. However, the 380 doesn't give me a lot of confidence in certain areas of town. So I picked up a new Airweight and took it to the range. I've owned and shot a lot of snubbies and they normally hit pretty close to where I aim but not my Airweight. At 15 yards it was hitting 3-4 inches high and 5-6 inches to the left. I figured no way the sights can be that far off it had to be me. So I slow fired the gun SA from a rest same thing. I next tried it at twenty five yards, SA slow fire from a rest on a silhouette target. All the shots hit in the upper right shoulder outside the eight ring. Only shots inside the eight ring count in qualification. There is no way shooting timed rapid fire I'll ever be able to pass qualification with this gun. My little 380 is lighter with just a nub of a sight but I have no trouble keeping the rounds upper center mass. I don't know if I should send it in to S&W or trade it off, I'd like to keep it cause it sure rides nice in a pocket holster in my front pocket.[/QUOTE]
tazcollins
Member
The airweights take a little getting used to. My son is a great shot and a LEO but he couldn't do well with one when I got him into one. Practice and now he loves his 642. Maybe let someone else that shoots these try yours. I sometimes bench rest my 642 and slow fire it to see what I can get in groups. They're great little shooters. Let us know what happens. TC
sipowicz
Member
See where it hits at 15-21 feet....if you are happy with the results, keep it....you won't be using this at 15 or 25 yards if you have sneakers on...
Even though it's unlikely I would have to shoot someone at 15-25 yards I still have to qualify at those ranges. The model is a 637. I figured it would be a little harder to shoot then my model 60 due to being a few ounces lighter. However, I shoot snubbies very well and the 637 is still way off even shooting from a rest single action. The groups aren't bad they are just way off. I looked on-line for a smith that could dove tail the frame and install sights and according to the smiths that do this on j frames it's not an uncommon problem. I've put around 250 rounds through the gun with a variety of ammo with no improvement. I have also had another experienced shooter try the gun with the same results. If I was going to have a problem adapting to a new gun it would be the Ruger 380, smaller, lighter, with a odd long trigger pull. But it shoots right on target, plus it doesn't fit my hand. I've fired 1,000's of round through j-frames and found most are more accurate then most people think.
straightshooter1
US Veteran
You are certainly right, that the little J-Frames are a lot more accurate than most folks think.
Given that you already have one and have shot it well, it seems unlikely it is you. Also, the fact that you are getting good groups, just some distance from your point of aim suggest the gun, not you, is the culprit.
I would call S&W, make sure they know you are not a novice with the J-Frame and ask them to look at it.
Bob
Given that you already have one and have shot it well, it seems unlikely it is you. Also, the fact that you are getting good groups, just some distance from your point of aim suggest the gun, not you, is the culprit.
I would call S&W, make sure they know you are not a novice with the J-Frame and ask them to look at it.
Bob
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You bought a lifetime warranty, use it.
I too am a retired LEO and carry daily. Of the three J's I own (M&P 360, 637 & 638) I shoot the 638 the best. I've encountered similar problems with the other two and thought it was just me. I'd call S&W and see what they say, I plan to do the same.
Tachi 62 Here,I have a 642, I have had to buy many types of ammo. I have the same problem/ Every thing hit hige and to the right. I found two things that may helpyou. first, use Federal 110 Grain PD ammo.
Second, make sure all of your frame screws are tight. I am a security officer, I had to use 110 grain to get the gun to shoot point of aim. I qualify out to 75 FT. hope this helps.
Second, make sure all of your frame screws are tight. I am a security officer, I had to use 110 grain to get the gun to shoot point of aim. I qualify out to 75 FT. hope this helps.
The fixed sight revolvers used to come with a statement from Smith stating they were required to meet a certain accuracy standard. Might check through your literature with the gun to see if that's still there somewhere(I'll try to find a copy and post it later.
Well I figured out the problem. I thought I'd put on some larger grips and darken the sights and make one more trip to the range before sending it to S&W. As soon as I darkened the back sight I could tell it's cut off center. I got out the callipers and it looks like it's around .035 off center. It's difficult to measure due to the bevel on the side of the frame.
It doesn't sound like a lot but now that I can clearly see the grove it is off center. That doesn't explain why it's hitting so high, though I could live with that. The only cure for hitting high would be a taller front sight, but the gun doesn't have a pinned sight so thats out.
It doesn't sound like a lot but now that I can clearly see the grove it is off center. That doesn't explain why it's hitting so high, though I could live with that. The only cure for hitting high would be a taller front sight, but the gun doesn't have a pinned sight so thats out.
Lubbock Louie
Member
A friend had a new J frame with the same problem.....mis-cut sight channel. S & W should replace yours.
LL/Cary
LL/Cary
RedBerens
Member
I had to shoot several different loads in my model 37 before I found one that shot where I wanted it to. I really wanted to carry the 135gr Gold Dot, but it shot high and left. 158gr loads of any kind also shot very high. I finally found two loads that shoot point of aim, the old Federal 125gr JHP and the new 125gr Nyclad. Could be your Airweight is a little picky like mine.
If your rounds are consistantly hitting off center you can send your target with the revolver back to S&W and they will adjust the gun according to the need.
Other mfg will do the same for you. They want happy customers and will usually have a quick solution.
Other mfg will do the same for you. They want happy customers and will usually have a quick solution.
JohnnieB
US Veteran
Lighter gun - More recoil. I have a 637 and it shoots high when I fire it freehand right after firing a heavier snubby or full sized revolver.
You probably don't have this problem since you're a lot more experienced with snubbies than I am, but it is food for thought.
Also, I had to try several different sets of grips before I found some that worked for me. The grips didn't effect left/right much, but the up/down was significant.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but Lighter bullets will also lower the POI.
It was most likely beginner's luck, but I found an inexpensive parctice round whose POI approximates my carry round. ( Georgia Arms 158gr LRN @ $0.23/round versus Speer 135gr GDHP SB+P @ $1.15/round) Not a perfect match, POI 2" to 3" different from a sandbag at 25 yrds, but more than close enough for my needs since I don't practice at more than 10yrds with a snubbie.
Hopefully a trip to S&W will correct the Left/Right issue.
John
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I have a bunch of J'-snubs including a M37 A/W. I carried it for a while, but at only 4 ounce of weight savings, I did not think it was worth the extra recoil. I went back to my M60 and stoke it with BB 158 Gr. +P LSWHP (heavy loads) which I would absolutely never fire out of a M37.
When I did carry the A/W I loaded it with BB standard pressure 158 Gr. LSWHP (NON +P) loads.
chief38
When I did carry the A/W I loaded it with BB standard pressure 158 Gr. LSWHP (NON +P) loads.
chief38
carnplanenut
Member
I love my 342. Only firearm for slacks!
Jason
Jason
Dave270
Member
You might find this hard to believe, but, when I was the armorer for our department, they sent me to S&W armorer's school. At the school, some of the time was spend repairing sent in revolvers from customers. Alot of the returns were for the problem you described, not shooting to point of aim.. The first one I worked on, the instructor told me that it needed a
"S&W minor adjustment". I believe it was a nickle plated Model 19. When I asked what that was he said "Watch". He took the Model 19, which was shooting high with the sight adjusted as low as it would go, placed a pure lead babbit on the bench, took the model 19, turned the barrel with the sights down, and struck the top of the barrel on the lead babbit as hard as he could.. In effect, he bent the barrel down slightly.. I asked him how hard to hit the barrel and his reply was, "keep one foot on the ground". You can believe this or not, but that actually happened..
Dave
"S&W minor adjustment". I believe it was a nickle plated Model 19. When I asked what that was he said "Watch". He took the Model 19, which was shooting high with the sight adjusted as low as it would go, placed a pure lead babbit on the bench, took the model 19, turned the barrel with the sights down, and struck the top of the barrel on the lead babbit as hard as he could.. In effect, he bent the barrel down slightly.. I asked him how hard to hit the barrel and his reply was, "keep one foot on the ground". You can believe this or not, but that actually happened..
Dave
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