All things .380

Been doing the "pocket gun thing" long enough to have owned a KelTec .32 when they first came out then trading it up when KelTec came out with the 3AT. I later sold it when I convinced myself I would carry a 9mm or .38 or nothing at all.

A couple years ago I got a Ruger LCP because I realized how often I carried nothing at all.

A .38 in my jeans or jacket pocket? Yes. Better.
A 9mm or .45 IWB or OWB? Yes. Better.
No gun on me? No. A .380 is better.

That's exactly my feelings. I have a friend whose motto is "anyone worth shooting is worth shooting with a .45". Yet how many time do I ask him if he' has it on him...and the answer is - "No". My .380 is always in my pocket.
 
My BG380 is always on me and I love it. Easy to put in pocket getting out of my vehicle. And easy to take out. Getting in my vehicle. Just got the xds. 45 will do some experimenting with it
 
For those who wonder about (or question) to defensive effectiveness of the .380:
Some years ago, the brother of a law enforcement friend was a narcotics officer for a state agency. In a "buy-bust" deal, he found himself inside a car with a nasty dealer who was either suspicious or planning to make it a "take" operation — he would shoot the agent, and take the buy money from his body.

As things went from bad to red alert in micro-seconds, the bad guy pulled a handgun to shoot the agent, but the steering wheel deflected his hand as he tried to bring it to bear on the cop in the passenger side of the car.

The agent jerked his own little .380 auto, which had been stuck in the small of his back, and got off the first couple of shots — the most important ones, as it turned out.

It must have been noisy inside that car, even with the passenger door partially opened, and it certainly was up close and personal. Shooting at someone the width of a car seat away is no one's idea of the optimum distance from the bad guy in a gunfight. But the .380 did its job, and the agent lived to tell of the incident. The bad guy didn't make it.

Most experts have always considered the .380 Auto to be at the lowest end of the spectrum for personal self-defense. Tell that to the dealer, and countless other miscreants that have been sent to their just rewards by the small-caliber semiautomatics. Because of their size and moderate recoil, the caliber has become a popular civilian self-defense round for the same reasons cops like them. They hide well, and they work
 
Most experts have always considered the .380 Auto to be at the lowest end of the spectrum for personal self-defense. Tell that to the dealer, and countless other miscreants that have been sent to their just rewards by the small-caliber semiautomatics.

If we use that yardstick, the .22 is an extremely effective self defense caliber because of the number of people that have been killed with it.

I'll still prefer a bigger heavier round. ;)
 
I own and carry a Beretta Model 34, made in 1936! Superb pistol, well made and always goes bang! Don't carry it much in the summer since it is an all steel pistol and my Florida "elastic waist shorts, t shirt and flip flops make kinda hard to conceal!"
 
Bottom line is you have to make a decision, carry or not.

Sometimes a small firearm is all that you can carry. Firearms aren't the end all. I feel there are three things that contribute to defending oneself properly.

1. First is your brain. You need to keep situational awareness. Remove yourself from potentially bad situations before they happen. Do not frequent and or travel in high risk areas, and think before you act. Make smart quick decisions. Keep yourself alert and out of harms way. If you have to go into high crime areas, maybe a j-frame or pocket .380 is not a good weapon selection. Dress to your situation.

2. Second is your body. You need to be physically fit and train your body as well as you train with your firearm. You may need to fend off an attacker before you can draw and defend yourself. You will more than likely have to be reactive unlike law enforcement and military which is proactive. Go take a few force on force classes to get a real wakeup call about how proper grip, stance, and sight picture may not always be possible. You may actually need to use those eyes, legs, lungs, and heart to move while shooting, and even those muscles to grapple and defend as you draw and fire.

3. Finally, it comes to the defensive weapon. There are three criteria I use for me.

1. Access. Can I carry it concealed in my attire in the environment? Can I have access to it at all times or will I have to leave it locked in a building or a car? I need to have access to it at all times. I am not going to bring my 4" model 19 on me to the beach, nor am I going to bring my keltec .380 with me to the city.

2. Proficiency. Can I shoot this weapon accurately in the following situation: One handed, on the move, at human sized targets. If I cannot, it can be a 50 caliber and be worthless to me. I train with what I carry and I carry what I can train with accurately.

3. Penetration. I am not as concerned about expansion as I am about being able to make deep holes in things. Does the caliber/bullet I am carrying work reliably in my weapon and meet certain terminal ballistics requirements. Namely for me, the 12" penetration through 4 layer denim and ballistic gel. I also factor in seasons. Luckily I live in a area that goes from warm to hot to oh my god hot back to warm again. But if I lived in a cold climate, I would have to reassess my selections based upon multiple thick layers of clothing.

After I have satisfied all of those requirements, then I make my selections. So sum up a long drawn out answer for a short question, I feel that in my climate , my .380 chronoing 90 grain buffalo bore speer gold dots at 1080FPS is more than adequate in certain situations. of course not all.
 
Bottom line is you have to make a decision, carry or not.

Sometimes a small firearm is all that you can carry. Firearms aren't the end all. I feel there are three things that contribute to defending oneself properly.

1. First is your brain. You need to keep situational awareness. Remove yourself from potentially bad situations before they happen. Do not frequent and or travel in high risk areas, and think before you act. Make smart quick decisions. Keep yourself alert and out of harms way. If you have to go into high crime areas, maybe a j-frame or pocket .380 is not a good weapon selection. Dress to your situation.

2. Second is your body. You need to be physically fit and train your body as well as you train with your firearm. You may need to fend off an attacker before you can draw and defend yourself. You will more than likely have to be reactive unlike law enforcement and military which is proactive. Go take a few force on force classes to get a real wakeup call about how proper grip, stance, and sight picture may not always be possible. You may actually need to use those eyes, legs, lungs, and heart to move while shooting, and even those muscles to grapple and defend as you draw and fire.

3. Finally, it comes to the defensive weapon. There are three criteria I use for me.

1. Access. Can I carry it concealed in my attire in the environment? Can I have access to it at all times or will I have to leave it locked in a building or a car? I need to have access to it at all times. I am not going to bring my 4" model 19 on me to the beach, nor am I going to bring my keltec .380 with me to the city.

2. Proficiency. Can I shoot this weapon accurately in the following situation: One handed, on the move, at human sized targets. If I cannot, it can be a 50 caliber and be worthless to me. I train with what I carry and I carry what I can train with accurately.

3. Penetration. I am not as concerned about expansion as I am about being able to make deep holes in things. Does the caliber/bullet I am carrying work reliably in my weapon and meet certain terminal ballistics requirements. Namely for me, the 12" penetration through 4 layer denim and ballistic gel. I also factor in seasons. Luckily I live in a area that goes from warm to hot to oh my god hot back to warm again. But if I lived in a cold climate, I would have to reassess my selections based upon multiple thick layers of clothing.

After I have satisfied all of those requirements, then I make my selections. So sum up a long drawn out answer for a short question, I feel that in my climate , my .380 chronoing 90 grain buffalo bore speer gold dots at 1080FPS is more than adequate in certain situations. of course not all.

eb07

Your comments could be used to settle the "best calibre" question for all time...but we know it won't! LOL
I'm so glad you added the physical fitness aspect because that is so important. People should learn to handle at least one unarmed attacker without the need to use a firearm (IMHO).

I do however disagree with you on the penetration issue. Even a .380, with premium loads (gold dot, PDX1, or Hornady to name a few) and well placed shots will get good/damaging penetration - even through bone... at self defense distances. Manufacturers ballistic charts show 14+ inches of penetration for 9mm, .40, and .45 cal rounds. At self-defense distances, I would be worried about "over penetration" potentially injuring an unintended target. And if the perp is 30 yards away then why not just run away from the situation rather than start shooting? (UNLESS they're shooting at me)
 
Lost Lake

I went to buy a Kimber Solo. Beautiful gun, and I loved the controls. But after trying it out I couldn't bring myself to buy it. Haven't looked at any others yet. I think the smaller 9's are too much power for the packages they're trying to put them into. I understand their thinking because if they come out with a "true" pocket sized 9mm that's reliable and controlable...they'll have themselves a gold mine. I'm 6'-3" and 200lb, so it's not a matter of them being anything but inconvenient to cc all the time. I'm going to look at the S &W Shield (9mm)this weekend.
 
I have many guns, and yes I have the Bg380. I carry it all the time. I do carry larger caliber when ever I can. As many have said, better with 380 than nothing at all. A lot of the times the BG is my second gun. In the summer it some times is the only gun. I find with practice I can place several rounds if I need to. Hopefully will never need to but better than no gun.
 
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Lost Lake

I went to buy a Kimber Solo. Beautiful gun, and I loved the controls. But after trying it out I couldn't bring myself to buy it. Haven't looked at any others yet. I think the smaller 9's are too much power for the packages they're trying to put them into.

The reason I asked was I have this theory.... :p

It seems the guys who staunchly advocate a certain caliber or gun tend to have only that caliber or gun.

I predict when you get a Shield 9mm, you will agree the 9mm is the best round anyone can carry. I think most of the caliber war issue is comprised of this phenomenon.

I'd like to loan you my 4513 for a few weeks to carry.... I think you'd come back with a whole new perspective. It's nicer to shoot than my BG380 ;)
 
I have 2 pistols in .380, one a Walther PPK/S (Interarms) and the other a Mauser HSC. The HSC feels more like a natural pointer when in my hand but the PPK/S is the more accurate of the 2 pistols for me. Used to carry the PPK/S but not anymore. I carry a S&W 642 now.
Never got involved in some of the newer versions of .380's.
_________
James
 
I've got a Colt Mustang and love it :)

jjeh-albums-colt-mustang-picture9180-mustang.jpg
 
Lost Lake
If you lived in Michigan I'd take you up on that offer to carry your 4513 for a bit. :)
You may be right about those only having one calibre of handgun, I don't know. But I'm pretty certain that even when I get my "Shield" I will STILL be carrying my BG 95% of the time because I don't want to make ANY changes to my wardrobe or how I dress, in order to conceal a gun. The Bodyguard affords me that option. No matter what I'm wearing, be it swim trunks or a fine suit...that .380 is in my pocket!!! A quick "case in point " story: A couple of weeks ago I went to a movie pre-release screening. As we approached the theatre door I noticed they were "wanding" people as they entered. This theatre has NO signs posted saying weapons aren't allowed. Now, I'm thinking -"should I step out of line and take my BG to the car?" I decided to just see what happens, and if they ask me to leave I will. They wanded me...and it didn't even detect the BG!!! I'm sure that If I had even a compact S&W .40, or the Shield etc. I would have gotten caught. I watched the movie in comfort, with a smile on my face. :)

The ONLY exception I will make is in the winter months, if I have to make a quick run to the store or something, where I WON'T be taking my coat off - I'll likelly have the shield underneath. Also, .40 is my preferred calibre for the Shield, but ammo prices are higher and because I intend to do lots of range shooting I opt for the 9mm instead.

You're right about the BG in one sense though. Puting more than 50 rounds through it in one session is not fun. But if I ever need to use it in defense I won't be coming close to that (smile).
Also, thank you sir, for serving to protect our country!
 
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.380

Here's my Kahr P380. Love the little BUGger, shoots like crazy. Always with me when I'm out:)

001_zps4c97fa1e.jpg
 
I would bet the Shield has less metal in it than the BG. My BG sits in my truck and it's too cold out to go get it and see.

You'll conceal a Shield just fine. Then you'll conceal a 9c just fine. If you're lucky you will find a 3913 for a good price and that will hide just about anywhere. Once you get bit by the third-gen bug your life will be changed and you'll know the pleasure of a really nice S&W semi-auto. After that you will be my competition looking for really nice third gens to hoard... :eek:

Reflecting on what I have previously posted, I realize you are completely right. The .380 is an excellent round and highly underrated. Please carry on, no need to try other weapons. :p
 
Nice try Lost Lake, but I will be trying out a few 3rd gen's, so your competition may just increase!
Sounds like you have the "shield?" (you hinted at comparring it to you BG in the truck)
 
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People will tell you (usually the guy carrying a .40 S&W with two extra 12-round mags) that a .380 will "just make somebody mad" and "really won't do any damage". You should ask these folks to stand there and let you shoot them a few times with it. They won't. :D

I don't want to stand there and be shot with a BB gun, either...but that doesn't make them effective self-defense weapons. I'm not knocking the .380 at all...a gun in the hand is worth all the ones in the safe, when the need arises. I'm just saying that there are lots and lots of things I wouldn't want to be shot with or hit with or stabbed with...in fact, I can't think of a single thing I'd want to be shot, hit, or stabbed with...but that doesn't mean that they are all good choices for self-defense.

To be brutally honest, with all the small framed 9mm pistols out there I find no reason at all that anyone would want to carry a .380

I agree...for me. But if someone else finds whatever gun/caliber the solution for their carry needs, then it is the right gun for them, when it comes to carry. Will it suffice when it comes to actually needing it? Who knows...there are too many variables to know the answer. There are many instances of people being shot repeatedly with bigger caliber rounds and surviving...while there are equally instances of people being fatally shot with one .22 round. Of all the variables, shot placement is the key...but in order for that to come into play, you have to have a gun to make the shot.

The ideal intersection of a CCW is where the caliber, size (ability to conceal), weight (willingness to carry), and reliability all meet in one gun...and that is going to vary by each person.
 
I don't carry a .380. I hope this isn't a slam on anyone. My wife has 4 or 5 380 autos. She is any excellent shot. Her favorite is her Sig P238 and Colt Mustang Pocket Lite. She also shoots a Bersa Thunder, Beretta 85 Cheetah- (My Favorite). Probably because it's bigger.
She can shoot all of my semi autos well up to my 10mm. But she feels most comfortable and confident with a .380 auto. I personally like the conceal-lability. I have a hard time controlling them because of their size.
 
Sounds like you have the "shield?" (you hinted at comparring it to you BG in the truck)

I have the Shield. It's okay. I have the M&P compact which is nicer than the Shield. No safety, smoother action. And the M&P full size which really shoots nice. Plenty of real estate to park a weapon light too.

In all I have 7 M&P's. They are kind of fun to collect, and I'm not done yet! :p
 
I have the Shield. It's okay. I have the M&P compact which is nicer than the Shield. No safety, smoother action. And the M&P full size which really shoots nice. Plenty of real estate to park a weapon light too.

In all I have 7 M&P's. They are kind of fun to collect, and I'm not done yet! :p
Which do you carry most (I'm guessing the compact)?
 
I stand with those who appreciate the Walther PPK and PPK/S. Years ago I had a wartime .32 (or 7.65mm) PPK that I let get away in a moment of temporary insanity, and when I replaced it with a PPK/S about five years ago I moved up to .380; I have heavier hitters that I would rely on for defense against home invaders, but if I were out and about the .380 would be one of the guns I would happily haul around in a pocket. Would a compact 9mm be a better choice? By some standards, sure, as would a small .40 or .45 -- but when you are evaluating adequacy, anything that lies on the high side of sufficient is functionally indistinguishable from anything else in that range.

I know I wouldn't want to be hit by a .380 projectile, and I have to assume that most guys who meant me ill wouldn't want to be either.
 
I've had 2 Beretta 84's, and the closed slide version, the Browning BDA. IMHO and experience, they are the best 380s, period. There may be some that equal it, but I haven't seen one yet. I was severely disappointed with both of my two Walther PPK's, and the PPK clones were mostly total junk, and others were OK, at best. Of all three of the Beretta made guns, the only single failure to fire was due to a seriously distorted case that was crushed as the slide tried to shove it into the chamber. I carry my present 84 once in a while, but my present carry gun is my Astra A-75 9mm, another one I have pretty much total confidence in. It's a heavy little gun, (I like that, a lot), and it seems to eat anything and everything I put in it.
 
Interesting: Ruger has taken their LC9 (9mm) and re-chamberred it for .380...and introduced the LC380! That should make the round feel "real nice" to fire. Think I'll have to try and find one to shoot. :)
 
I carry a Bodyguard 380, hot, no safety, Critical Defense in a DeSantis Nemesis. Never had to show it and hope I never have to. I think it would be at least a decent deterrent to aggression.
 
To all Bodyguard owners. You may want o consider getting a Pachmyer grip for your .380. Mine came yesterday ($15 incl shp on ebay) and it gives the grip a better size, making it more comfortable in the hand, and though I haven't shot with it yet I'm expecting improved accuracy.

I have considered the Pachmyer but I also read reports that the grip slips down and interferes with trying to reload the gun with a fresh mag.

Do you have any update regarding this?
 
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