Alloy j-frame service life

[K-framer]

Well, after all of this time....and after having given up revolvers for semi-autos....I find that I still have a major Jones for revolvers.

I have been kicking around the idea of getting a 442, 642, or some other variation of the j-frame.

I've never had an alloy-framed revolver....and I am a bit worried about the service life. I hand load all of my ammo and would do the same for the j-frame.....with relatively light target loads. Heavier loads for carry ammo, but still probably not quite in +p territory. I I have been hand loading for a long time. I cut my teeth (for handgun shooting) with revolvers, including j-frame sized guns. Recoil and snubby-related shooting issues don't concern me (plenty of experience).

I do shoot quite a bit....and I am concerned about how well an alloy-framed "j" will hold up. Should I be worried ? Should I insist on a steel framed revolver ? For those of you with alloy j-frames (I like the 642 alot)....who also shoot alot.....any issues with frame life ?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I am really on the fence - and I want to get off of it (darn fence hurts to sit on !).

 

[NE450No2]

I have been using, and shooting a S&W Bodyguard that I bought around 1972 to 1974.
I have shot rabbits with it, snakes with it, carried it as a backup while on and off duty, still carry it everyday when I leave my property.

It has shot a fair amount of hot reloads,[before I know better], and a fair amount of +P and +P+.

I treat it a little more gently now, but still carry +P+ ammo in it for serious business...

The newer S&W's do not seem to be as well made as the older guns, but in normal use I still think the Airweights are a great carry revolver.

Back in the day it, was a common practice for serious shooters that carried an Airweight for protection, to have the same gun in steel for practice and as a carry backup to the Airweight.

 

[Old cop]

FWIW I purchased my first off-duty Colt Cobra in 1968 and have shot it plenty w/all kinds of loads. It still works fine. My next purchase was a Smith Model 38, second hand in the early 70's and shot it plenty. It also runs fine and in fact I just qualified w/it at LEOSA certification in June.

 

[regalsc]

The new S&W's have a lifetime warranty so I have zero worries about my new scandium frame ti cylinder ones. What is or was the warranty on the old ones?

 

[kaaskop49]

The present-day lightweight Js (637, 638, 442/642), while they have aluminum frames, seem to be more substantial than the previous 37, 38 and 42 guns. Purely subjective, the older guns have a "tinny" feel to me, for lack of an accurate term. I find them difficult to shoot re recoil, but perhaps that is my nerve damage barking!

I have no reservations about any kind of regular shooting of the modern Js. IMO.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

While not a massive amount of shooting I have put 587rds (yes, I looked it up in my log book and yes, I'm a little OCD. ) through my 642-2 with no ill affects and 220 rds of that were +p.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Most of these guns, I suspect, are not shot much because they kick fairly sharply. I have a 442 I bought last fall and it has been fired on average about twenty rounds a month with standard velocity 158 grain reloads. I could not imagine firing one of the lightweight .357 J-frames with a standard power .357 cartridge...A cylinderful of full power .44 mag from a 3" M29 is about all I can do at a range session without flinching like heck for the rest of the outing with whatever else I shoot...

 

[Jaymo]

Don't you all know that shooting.38 +P in anything less than a .357 Max T/C Contender will destroy gravity and cause the Earths rotation to reverse?
And you call yourselves gun guys.

I salute you dudes who enjoy shooting +Ps from your Airweights.
I don't particularly enjoy shooting them from a steel J frame.
Your elbow and wrist tendons have my respect.

 

[colt_saa]

Sorry, I do not keep good records.

However, my 340 has had in excess of 5000 but less than 7000 full power 357 Magnums through it. That is probably more than an average shooter puts through a J-snubby in a lifetime.

Not all of them were by me, it is teaching revolver.

It is not yet showing any appreciable wear.

If you are planning on a few hundred rounds every Sunday for the next 20 or 30 years . . . . I would go steel frame.

Must it be a snubby? The 60 Pro is a great little wheel gun that will last forever with the loads you are talking about

 

[MTKTM]

However, my 340 has had in excess of 5000 but less than 7000 full power 357 Magnums through it. That is probably more than an average shooter puts through a J-snubby in a lifetime.

I recalled from several years back that someone on here claimed to have fired many thousands of full-power 357s through a 340PD, and perhaps that was you. I will say that these guns are most generally carried much and fired little, but your experience proves that they will last the lifetime of a typical shooter/owner......and beyond!

Back when I was a teenager my dad gave me my first handgun, a 6.5" 27, manufactured in 1958......it was given to me in '65 or '66. I shot the hell out of that gun, lots and lots of fairly hot hand loads, and remember fretting for a time over gas-cutting of the top-strap. I remember my dad telling me that if I shot through it, or wore the gun out from shooting (as opposed to from abuse), he'd buy me a replacement. So I shot it even more, but never could wear that thing out. As a matter of fact, I still have it and it's in perfect working order.

Okay, I realize that a 27 is undoubtedly more durable than a 340 or 442, etc., but is it really? But in either event, I haven't worried about wearing a gun out in decades. Besides, if you do, it just means you had a lot of fun shooting a whole bunch, and get to buy another fun revolver!! It's all good.

 

[HarrishMasher]

Greg Bell over at M4Carbine.net has fired over 5,000 rounds through his 642. Many of the 5K rounds fired are +P. Every round fired is documented in the thread. The gun still looks and shoots like new.

Project: Break my J frame.

Given the advancements in modern ammo, you don't need +P. The Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure Low Flash 38 loads expand down to low velocities and have excellent penetration. Speer and Hornady offer loads in standard pressure 38 that are comparable.

 

[Lobster Picnic]

I'd just buy one and try to wear it out. You won't wear out the lifetime warranty.

 

[Texas Star]

Writer Massad Ayoob stretched the frame of a M-38 so badly that the gun wouldn't fire, as I recall. Took just 500 rounds of Plus P, but not sure which load(s). I think he prefers the same lead Plus P HP once used by the FBI. He found that load far more effective in killing pigs in a slaughterhouse, vs. his .380. That was one of his better articles.

We have seen posts here about cracked frames around barrel throats, too, and a writer, I think the late Chic Gaylord, also noted that if you have to hit someone with a light alloy gun, the human skull will usually prove tougher than the gun.

But you may have seen Bill Jordan's wry comment that it is often easier to persuade a jury that you didn't shoot someone too much in lieu of convincing them that you didn't hit him too hard or too much. I think he was dead serious.

If you have to hit someone with a gun, you should probably have shot them before they got within grappling distance. (This is not legal advice, and I am not a lawyer, yours or otherwise. )

The strength of lightweight alloy guns varies a lot. The older aluminum ones were not as strong as current ones, and scandium is another story altogether, as is titanium. I understand that those materials are much stronger, but recoil is still an issue. I don't know how brittle those materials may be. Hit someone in the head, and the trigger guard may break. Or not...

Frankly, I think the basic J-frame should be a Model 60 made before they went to things that we're no longer allowed to talk about here. You can then buy a lightweight for a pocket gun. You'll need to shoot it some, to remain familiar with it and the recoil and where it hits with the load you select. But they are meant mainly as "carry much; shoot little" guns.

Some report fine results with them, esp. these newer ones Rated for Plus P or even .357 pressures. But you then have The Lock, etc. to deal with. Older ones SOMETIMES break. What you read about on the Net are the failures. The satisfied owners usually don't post!

Good luck with your decision. Bear in mind that S&W has publicly stated that only STEEL FRAMED guns with a Model number are acceptable to them for use with Plus P ammo. You are specifically enjoined from firing Plus P in light alloy guns or you'll almost surely void any warranty. This doesn't apply to newer versions MARKED and Rated for Plus P use.

 

[Rpg]

If you are over 21, an alloy j frame will outlast you.

I've been using a M38 since the mid '70s, when I bought it used.

I put around 2,000 rounds through it annually.

As much as I respect Kaascop49's opinion, I prefer the older (2 digit) model j frames: to me, the newer (3 digit) j frames are clunky and rough in comparison.

Shoot your alloy j frame as much as you want.

It will outlast you and will give many years of service after you're gone.

 

[K-framer]

Thanks for the replies, one and all. I like, in particular, the comment that "I won't wear out the lifetime warranty". Darn good point.

I have never used +P ammo, let alone ever loaded any. So, if I do take the plunge, whatever I get won't be subjected to anything but light loads for practice and moderate loads for SD (NO +P). I was mainly concerned about quantity....but, in retrospect, it sounds as if my concerns were foolish.

I probably would put about 100 rounds, with 15 or 20 of those being SD loads, perhaps every other trip to the range. So, that would entail perhaps 200 rounds a month, give or take. I believe very strongly in practicing regularly with my carry guns.....and I would carry the revolver, just not all the time. I have a matched pair of semi-auto subcompacts (Glock 26) that I use as EDC's (alternating between them)....and one of those gets shot on every range trip.

In any case, it sounds as if I don't have much to worry about....and the lifetime warranty would be there just in case. So, I just have to come to a decision.

Again, thanks everyone. You guys have definitely helped.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I think it was back in the 70's when S&W started putting a heavier frame on the J frames in order to handle the heavier loads better.

A steel frame will soak up more of the recoil with its 21 oz. weight +/-............
however a 16oz. is more comfortable if you want to carry it all day.

The 442 or 642 will work for you, mostly since you will be reloading most of your ammo to fit your needs.
Just make sure it has a +P some where on it for the warranty.

Mine does well with the 125 and 148 lead bullets for a practice run but the 158's are also fun if kept under 700 fps for a full days outing.

 

[regalsc]

With me at least its what I get used to carrying & for whatever reason its not only the weight of the gun but the size of the gun I can notice a difference. For example my Kahr mk9 weighs twice what my 340pd does yet I can't really feel a big difference between the two while carrying but I still choose to carry my 340pd all day at work. By the way the 340pd has no lock. I looked for a long time to find one. There is the potential should a situation ever come about that I would have to shoot from my work vehicle thus my choice of revolver over semi auto due to ejected brass flying around.

 

[Jaymo]

The only Airweight Js that turn my crank are the 432/642 and 438/638

I still prefer a 40/642 or 49/649.

I am very tempted to get a new 642 without the IL.
Very handy size. Very easy pocket carry.
I'm so used to my 36 being in my pocket, I'd probably forget that I had the Airweight on me (like I have my Kel-Tec P3AT).

Not like I need an excuse to buy a Centennial pattern J, but the fact that I don't have one is indeed a good excuse.

 

[kaaskop49]

Don't you all know that shooting.38 +P in anything less than a .357 Max T/C Contender will destroy gravity and cause the Earths rotation to reverse?

No, but it will prevent Communism.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103