almost brand new M&P 15 sport not wanting to fire

[samnev]

I also use Hoppe's 9. It's good stuff. However, it is a solvent, not a lube.
I use it to clean and then lube with a product that is a lube.
I like CLP (just short of dripping) as it keeps the crud in
semi-suspension and makes it easier it clean at the end of the day.

The above is correct. Hoppe's #9 is a solvent for bore cleaning not a lubricant. That could be part of your problem. The charts below might help.

 

[cjpitt1985]

The above is correct. Hoppe's #9 is a solvent for bore cleaning not a lubricant. That could be part of your problem. The charts below might help.

no Hoppes makes solvent and lube. If you don't believe me go to wally world or academy and look. They even sell a cheap kit for 10 bucks at wally world that has some rods, solvent, and lube.

anyway follow up: I sent it to s&w after spraying everything down in solvent and scrubbing it. That did it, after I did it twice it did the trick. They didn't find a problem and I ran 90 rounds of 3 kinds of ammo in 3 mags without any problem.

One thing I did last night cleaning it: I got a q-tip end stuck in the gas key like an idiot, but apparently it will just burn up and I got most of it out with a wooden skewer. Apparently I'm not the first person to do this and everyone on the internet that did it said they shot it and it burned the cotton up so I'm not worried about it.

Thanks for all of your suggestions and thank you S&W for taking a look at my gun. It isn't my only S&W and it won't be my last. Their customer service is awesome.

 

[cjpitt1985]

ok I'm bumping this up because after sending it in to S&W it is still having this problem. There is no residue of a q-tip in the gas key and I've blown out the gas tube. It is jamming where it bends the end of the crimp where the bullet meets the casing, to where it will not chamber fully. I'm using Independence, Federal American Eagle, and Perfecta brass ammo. All gen 2 magpul pmags (just like the one that came with the rifle). I'm cleaning the hell out of it with a .22 boresnakke, lubing the hell out of it with either Hoopes 9 oil, CLP or Remoil. Does the same stuff. I am not a happy customer right now. I'm now seeing why people bash the sportsters because at this point I'd never recommend someone else buy one.

 

[JHB51]

With the bolt in the open position insert the mag and give it a good smack on the bottom to make sure it is seated properly. It sounds like the mag is not completely all the time.

 

[cyphertext]

ok I'm bumping this up because after sending it in to S&W it is still having this problem. There is no residue of a q-tip in the gas key and I've blown out the gas tube. It is jamming where it bends the end of the crimp where the bullet meets the casing, to where it will not chamber fully. I'm using Independence, Federal American Eagle, and Perfecta brass ammo. All gen 2 magpul pmags (just like the one that came with the rifle). I'm cleaning the hell out of it with a .22 boresnakke, lubing the hell out of it with either Hoopes 9 oil, CLP or Remoil. Does the same stuff. I am not a happy customer right now. I'm now seeing why people bash the sportsters because at this point I'd never recommend someone else buy one.

Ok, slow down... Is it doing this with the first round, the 10th round, or what? Does it do it with all of your magazines at the same round? Are your magazines marked so that you are sure it is doing it with all of them, and not just one in the rotation? Also, are you making sure that the magazine is seated well by pulling on it after inserting it?

And I know you are not happy, however I have seen DD and Colt both have these types of issues as well. Anyone who "bash on the sporters" are idiots... any manufacturer can put a lemon out, and by your own story, it sounds like your rifle will shoot many rounds just fine before having an issue.

 

[cjpitt1985]

Ok, slow down... Is it doing this with the first round, the 10th round, or what? Does it do it with all of your magazines at the same round? Are your magazines marked so that you are sure it is doing it with all of them, and not just one in the rotation? Also, are you making sure that the magazine is seated well by pulling on it after inserting it?

And I know you are not happy, however I have seen DD and Colt both have these types of issues as well. Anyone who "bash on the sporters" are idiots... any manufacturer can put a lemon out, and by your own story, it sounds like your rifle will shoot many rounds just fine before having an issue.

it is doing it at random times, with random magazines, with random ammo. Whenever I have a malfunction with any gun I mark the mag. When I notice a gun is not liking a certain brand of ammo I stay away from that ammo (even though a modern AR-15 should shoot anything that isn't a crappy reload and I've never even thrown steel through this one).

I tap the mags before I put them in, and make sure they are seated correctly. I've even tried putting in 28 rounds to see if it is a problem.

I'm a handgunner by hobby, but I wanted this just because I wanted an uncle sam really for SHTF situations. I am one of those people that run glocks/s&w/cz75 because I think a gun that jams at all is worthless in this day in time.

I'm getting to the point to where I feel S&W owes me money due to all the 5.56 ammo I've wasted just to function test it. That **** isn't cheap and I only give it good stuff.

 

[cyphertext]

it is doing it at random times, with random magazines, with random ammo. Whenever I have a malfunction with any gun I mark the mag. When I notice a gun is not liking a certain brand of ammo I stay away from that ammo (even though a modern AR-15 should shoot anything that isn't a crappy reload and I've never even thrown steel through this one).

I tap the mags before I put them in, and make sure they are seated correctly. I've even tried putting in 28 rounds to see if it is a problem.

I'm a handgunner by hobby, but I wanted this just because I wanted an uncle sam really for SHTF situations. I am one of those people that run glocks/s&w/cz75 because I think a gun that jams at all is worthless in this day in time.

I'm getting to the point to where I feel S&W owes me money due to all the 5.56 ammo I've wasted just to function test it. That **** isn't cheap and I only give it good stuff.

It still sounds like a magazine issue to me. Next time at the range, when you get a stoppage, grab the magazine and try to rip it from the rifle. Grab it and pull down hard, making sure that it is locked into the lower... do this when inserting the magazine as well...

If you find that your magazines are not locking in, then try tightening the mag catch. If that doesn't work, the mag catch may need to be replaced. If the mags are locked in, and it does this with multiple mags and multiple ammo, you will have to send it to S&W again.

 

[JaPes]

Do you have a friend with an AR-15? What I'm about to propose is stupid, but it will narrow the issue down to your upper, lower, or magazine. This works because AR-15's are built upon standardized dimensions.

1. Make sure your friend's AR-15 is in perfect working order.

2. Making sure your M&P 15 is cleaned, lubed, seat the mag with a smack, a.k.a. everything you've done so far. Verify your issue. Try not to get frustrated.

3. Clear and safe both rifles. Separate both rifle's uppers from their lowers.

4a. Mount your friend's upper to your lower.
4b. Mount your lower to your friend's upper.

While using the same factory ammo, preferably from the same production lot...
Making sure you've marked magazines to readily identify one from the other...

5a. With the rifle comprised of your friend's upper and your lower, put rounds downrange.
5b. Shoot with your magazines. Check for issues.
5c. Shoot with your friend's magazines. Check for issues.

6a. With the rifle comprised of your lower and your friend's upper, put rounds downrage.
6b. Shoot with your magazines. Check for issues.
6c. Shoot with your friend's magazines. Check for issues.

Mitigate any issues that may be marksman induced. Have said friend shoot the test.

Keep a notebook handy. Log the performance test to document the issue.

You'll quickly zero in on which portion of your rifle is suspect: Upper, Lower, Magazine.

When you call S&W, you'll have an idea of where the issues are. You can then have an informed discussion with the S&W customer rep. You will then have some knowledge to work with when you receive your rifle back from S&W with the explanation of repair.

I am one of those people that run glocks/s&w/cz75 because I think a gun that jams at all is worthless in this day in time.

I empathize. I used to have an extensive pistol collection. Since I earned a concealed carry license, my viewpoint on pistols have shifted to be similar to yours. Practicality and reliable function over aesthetics. In the context of a firearm who's purpose of use is to defend life and limb, any firearm that is a jam-o-matic is worthless. A firearm that requires extensive breakdown and cumbersome cleaning/maintenance to ensure proper operation at all times isn't one I choose for defensive duty.

My carry gun and primary HD pistol are Glocks. I don't have to explain to you why.

I'm an old-timer on this sub-forum. I used to own a M&P 15-Sport. I did everything possible to mitigate the disadvantages and shortcomings of the direct gas impingement system. By the time I was done and totaled the cost of parts and the time I take to maintain the firearm, I had to rethink my choice. By no means does that mean AR-15's aren't great rifles. They are. They're just not for me.

Lots of things to think about. I understand your frustration. Pay good $$$ for something that everyone says is awesome, yet yours isn't.

• Is my 15-Sport a lemon?
• Is the AR-15 truly what I want?
• Should I switch to an AK-47?
• What are my real needs?

Again, I can see how it can get frustrating fast. I can offer this tidbit from my own experience and being honest with myself.

1. I need to hit minute of bad guy on a moving target at 100 yards under less than ideal range conditions. Anything over 100 yards, consider me the best suppressive fire you can have sitting next to you.

2. I'm not a long distance marksman by any standard. I don't practice for it because I don't have the facilities nearby to practice it.

3. If the rifle happens to provide better than minute of bad guy accuracy in my hands, it's a bonus.

4. While I am more than capable of maintaining an AR-15 to the peak of performance (see my cleaning/maintenance thread in the stickies), I've learned I don't like to do it.

Have you ever given thought to a rifle that uses a different operating method to cycle the action? I've moved onto rifles with long stroke gas piston systems: IWI Tavor (5.56) and an AK-M (7.62x39). Shooting enjoyment has increased. Post range maintenance time has decreased considerably.

Goodbye:

Hello:

I'll end my rambling post here and don my flame resistant safety suit.

 

[cjpitt1985]

Do you have a friend with an AR-15? What I'm about to propose is stupid, but it will narrow the issue down to your upper, lower, or magazine. This works because AR-15's are built upon standardized dimensions.

1. Make sure your friend's AR-15 is in perfect working order.

2. Making sure your M&P 15 is cleaned, lubed, seat the mag with a smack, a.k.a. everything you've done so far. Verify your issue. Try not to get frustrated.

3. Clear and safe both rifles. Separate both rifle's uppers from their lowers.

4a. Mount your friend's upper to your lower.
4b. Mount your lower to your friend's upper.

While using the same factory ammo, preferably from the same production lot...
Making sure you've marked magazines to readily identify one from the other...

5a. With the rifle comprised of your friend's upper and your lower, put rounds downrange.
5b. Shoot with your magazines. Check for issues.
5c. Shoot with your friend's magazines. Check for issues.

6a. With the rifle comprised of your lower and your friend's upper, put rounds downrage.
6b. Shoot with your magazines. Check for issues.
6c. Shoot with your friend's magazines. Check for issues.

Mitigate any issues that may be marksman induced. Have said friend shoot the test.

Keep a notebook handy. Log the performance test to document the issue.

You'll quickly zero in on which portion of your rifle is suspect: Upper, Lower, Magazine.

When you call S&W, you'll have an idea of where the issues are. You can then have an informed discussion with the S&W customer rep. You will then have some knowledge to work with when you receive your rifle back from S&W with the explanation of repair.




I empathize. I used to have an extensive pistol collection. Since I earned a concealed carry license, my viewpoint on pistols have shifted to be similar to yours. Practicality and reliable function over aesthetics. In the context of a firearm who's purpose of use is to defend life and limb, any firearm that is a jam-o-matic is worthless. A firearm that requires extensive breakdown and cumbersome cleaning/maintenance to ensure proper operation at all times isn't one I choose for defensive duty.

My carry gun and primary HD pistol are Glocks. I don't have to explain to you why.

I'm an old-timer on this sub-forum. I used to own a M&P 15-Sport. I did everything possible to mitigate the disadvantages and shortcomings of the direct gas impingement system. By the time I was done and totaled the cost of parts and the time I take to maintain the firearm, I had to rethink my choice. By no means does that mean AR-15's aren't great rifles. They are. They're just not for me.

Lots of things to think about. I understand your frustration. Pay good $$$ for something that everyone says is awesome, yet yours isn't.

• Is my 15-Sport a lemon?
• Is the AR-15 truly what I want?
• Should I switch to an AK-47?
• What are my real needs?

Again, I can see how it can get frustrating fast. I can offer this tidbit from my own experience and being honest with myself.

1. I need to hit minute of bad guy on a moving target at 100 yards under less than ideal range conditions. Anything over 100 yards, consider me the best suppressive fire you can have sitting next to you.

2. I'm not a long distance marksman by any standard. I don't practice for it because I don't have the facilities nearby to practice it.

3. If the rifle happens to provide better than minute of bad guy accuracy in my hands, it's a bonus.

4. While I am more than capable of maintaining an AR-15 to the peak of performance (see my cleaning/maintenance thread in the stickies), I've learned I don't like to do it.

Have you ever given thought to a rifle that uses a different operating method to cycle the action? I've moved onto rifles with long stroke gas piston systems: IWI Tavor (5.56) and an AK-M (7.62x39). Shooting enjoyment has increased. Post range maintenance time has decreased considerably.

Goodbye:

Hello:

I'll end my rambling post here and don my flame resistant safety suit.

Yeah I completely understand what you are saying, but I've been taught by Marines/Army people now how to maintain an AR-15. Not a very painstaking task if you know what to do and are willing to spend 15 minutes. The mags run fine out of other people's AR's (my friend has an FNH) as well as the Ammo. I have not switched uppers and lowers, just because, well, in my opinion it isn't my damn job to make sure this rifle (less than a year old now) runs fine out of the box. It is also hard to say "hey my AR is a jam-o-matic, let me throw my lower onto your upper" or vice-versa. That is all on Smith and Wesson in my opinion, to make sure I'm happy with what I purchased from them. It'd be different if I was throwing reloads or anything crappy through it.

I know plenty of folks with AR-15's and a couple with sporters and they don't have this problem. So it is up to S&W to make this right, not me spending 35-50c a round to figure it out. Like I've said I've gone through enough 5.56/.223 BRASS to had not cheaped out on the sport and bought a Colt or at least a Ruger. The way I feel right now, no way I'm putting another round I paid for through it before S&W resolves it. It'd be different if it was a "once and a while" thing but this happens every time I go out there and I know it isn't a mag, ammo, or lube problem. I've seen my friend run his FN bone dry just about and run a 60rd magpul drum as fast as he could.

Yeah I'm getting to the point of buying an AK and just saying "f it" because AK's get the job done.

 

[cjpitt1985]

It still sounds like a magazine issue to me. Next time at the range, when you get a stoppage, grab the magazine and try to rip it from the rifle. Grab it and pull down hard, making sure that it is locked into the lower... do this when inserting the magazine as well...

If you find that your magazines are not locking in, then try tightening the mag catch. If that doesn't work, the mag catch may need to be replaced. If the mags are locked in, and it does this with multiple mags and multiple ammo, you will have to send it to S&W again.

dude the mag is in there tight i promise. at least to the point to where it isn't wanting to fall halfway out. The only way to get the jammed round out is to take the mag out and yank on the back of the charging handle and pray that it doesn't pull a muscle to get the thing out. This rifle has caused me slight injury even. I've pulled on the mag to make sure it was in tightly before I took them out to clear the jam.

Basically **** tightening anything myself, or changing uppers/lowers, this thing is going back to S&W ASAP. I could have built one cheaper, had forward assist and dust cover, and had these screw ups and it be on me. I bought s&w because of its reputation and lifetime warranty.

 

[rtquig]

I would send back the AR 15 to S&W with a brief letter of problem followed by a DVD or memory card showing you at a range with your problems. Be specific at which time this problem arose. Call them first and explain you have already sent it to them once, and who specifically what person will know you AR is going to and they are aware of your video. Ask them to fix it right, or get you a new AR.

 

[cjpitt1985]

I would send back the AR 15 to S&W with a brief letter of problem followed by a DVD or memory card showing you at a range with your problems. Be specific at which time this problem arose. Call them first and explain you have already sent it to them once, and who specifically what person will know you AR is going to and they are aware of your video. Ask them to fix it right, or get you a new AR.

I'm not burning a DVD for them or giving them an SD card to realize that it isn't slamming into battery and bending the casings to the point of complete dissasembly to clear it. In fact I'm not burning up another few 5.56 rds of my own either. I'm calling them tomorrow, letting them know what is up, that I'm sending in EVERY mag I've ever used for it plus the rifle.

I'm not trying to come off as snarky, because everyone has done nothing but try to help, but it is getting ridiculous at this point. I've spent money with s&w (4506, shield, mod 36) enough to where they should honor their word without me having to go back out there and shoot a film and burn it for them. I know it could possibly help them but seriously there can't be too many things causing the issue and it is pretty simple. It isn't like I could be limp-wristing or anything.

 

[turbo38gn]

I'm not burning a DVD for them or giving them an SD card to realize that it isn't slamming into battery and bending the casings to the point of complete dissasembly to clear it. In fact I'm not burning up another few 5.56 rds of my own either. I'm calling them tomorrow, letting them know what is up, that I'm sending in EVERY mag I've ever used for it plus the rifle.

I'm not trying to come off as snarky, because everyone has done nothing but try to help, but it is getting ridiculous at this point. I've spent money with s&w (4506, shield, mod 36) enough to where they should honor their word without me having to go back out there and shoot a film and burn it for them. I know it could possibly help them but seriously there can't be too many things causing the issue and it is pretty simple. It isn't like I could be limp-wristing or anything.

Has S&W given you trouble with warrantying your gun...?

 

[cjpitt1985]

Has S&W given you trouble with warrantying your gun...?

no, other than it is still having this problem, after sending it to them once and them saying it was ok, using my Pmag and theirs.

unless they can explain why this is happening with every single kind of ammo I've ever ran through simply, then they need to replace the rifle or at least run it until it emulates the problem and fix said issue.

 

[turbo38gn]

Wow... just read some of your previous posts.... sounds like your disdain for S&W can only be satisfied with owning an AK and a Glock...

Good luck sending it back..

 

[cjpitt1985]

Wow... just read some of your previous posts.... sounds like your disdain for S&W can only be satisfied with owning an AK and a Glock...

Good luck sending it back..

I don't have much disdain for s&w other than with this particular weapon. My shield 9 didn't like a bad batch of rounds, figured that out when I ran the same rounds through my Glock 19 and M9.

Other than that (which was directly ammo related) I haven't had any problems out of S&W. My mod 36 was fine, my 4506 is great, and my shield 9 is my backup edc gun.

It is just a tad disheartening when you spend $600+ on a gun, decide to get it over a Ruger because you like S&W better as a whole, and then S&W can't figure it out after you send it in once. A well-kept AR-15 should NOT jam, I'm not in Iraq, and it definitely shouldn't be jamming every 50 rounds at least to the point of having separate the upper and lower and pull a shoulder muscle.

 

[turbo38gn]

Oh my....... The drama and side effects are killing me..... you may have to call a lawyer for all the physical damage you incurred with your $600 gun....

 

[cjpitt1985]

lol so you think it is ok that s&w sells me an inferior product apparently? or that they shouldn't have caught the problem the first time around and sent it back to me with the same exact problem?

you're perpetuating just as much drama by obviously being a S&W fanboy. I DO have a problem with their warranty work obviously. Yeah I'm a tad pissed but you probably would be too.

Anyway I don't know why I got on here other than to complain, because I'm out of "suggestions" and people blaming multiple brand new PMAGs. From now on this issue is between me and the people who work for S&W.

 

[scooter123]

I'm wondering if my some oddball mistake you don't have a barrel with M16 feed ramps in the barrel extension mounted in am M4 receiver. If so that may be the reason you are having problems. Good news is that this type of assembly mistake isn't very difficult to spot, all you have to do is look to see if the feed ramps machined into the upper match the feed ramps machined into the barrel extension.

So, some definitions just to insure that you look in the correct area. 1) the Upper Receiver is the aluminum upper half that the barrel and handguard are mounted to. 2) The Feed ramps are two angled grooves machined and angled into the chamber. The reason there are two feed raps is because the AR platform uses a non converging double column magazine so the bullet can feed from either side of the magazine. Note, it just occurred to me that a missing or improperly feed ram on one side could cause the intermittent failure you are experiencing, so look to see that both feed ramps match each other. 3) The Barrel Extension is a separate part that screws onto the barrel itself and the Extension is the part that features the Locking Lugs for the bolt and two separate Feed Ramps that should match the ramps machined into the receiver. If there is any mismatch then that would be a problem. Note, a very slight step or visible line is NOT a mismatch, for this discussion a mismatch is something in excess of 1/32 inch.

 

[turbo38gn]

I'm a mechanic.... when it comes to anything mechanical... on a car or a gun for that matter... I can usually fix it or figure it out. It's not unusual to have a customer complain about a problem with their car, yet when we get it... it just won't do it... so the bottom line, unless it does it.. tough to fix it. Taking guesses gets expensive on a car... You act like SW sent you a gun back on purpose that malfunctioned... get a life..

 

[turbo38gn]

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss19/gatorhunt2201/AR15 stuff/feedramps2-1.jpg

Here's the feed ramps

 

[cjpitt1985]

I'm a mechanic.... when it comes to anything mechanical... on a car or a gun for that matter... I can usually fix it or figure it out. It's not unusual to have a customer complain about a problem with their car, yet when we get it... it just won't do it... so the bottom line, unless it does it.. tough to fix it. Taking guesses gets expensive on a car... You act like SW sent you a gun back on purpose that malfunctioned... get a life..

I'm an IT guy/computer engineer. If I don't catch what is causing a mechanical problem at MY job I get cussed out. I didn't imply that they sent me back a bad gun on purpose, just said I was disappointed in them. And god "get a life" I'm not the one lurking S&W forums. Come on don't get petty. S&W will make it right I'm sure, just wanting to know if anyone had any obvious answers again other than "looks like mag" or "looks like ammo".

 

[cjpitt1985]

my feed ramps look like the top right pic

not sure why that'd have anything to do with a pre-assembled rifle though

 

[MichiganScott]

Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be shooting the rifle using the mag for a monopod, would you? That will almost guarantee jams.

 

[cyphertext]

Ok, so you are frustrated, we get it. But I can assure you that Ruger has put out some bad ARs, as well as Colt, DD, Noveske, BCM, etc.

You have admitted yourself that the problem is intermittent... fired 60 rounds without a problem... How many rounds do you want S&W to fire through your rifle to induce a jam? Let them know that it is intermittent and that you want them to shoot it until they see the failure.

It doesn't do you any good to come on here just to complain. If you are not willing to try to fix anything yourself, then you need to just send it in.

 

[Rastoff]

my feed ramps look like the top right pic

not sure why that'd have anything to do with a pre-assembled rifle though

Because sometimes machines get assembled wrong at the plant. It happens and was a worthwhile question to ask. This isn't an issue on yours so, on to the next potential issue.

Any possibility you could post a pic of the issue?

 

[cjpitt1985]

Ok, so you are frustrated, we get it. But I can assure you that Ruger has put out some bad ARs, as well as Colt, DD, Noveske, BCM, etc.

You have admitted yourself that the problem is intermittent... fired 60 rounds without a problem... How many rounds do you want S&W to fire through your rifle to induce a jam? Let them know that it is intermittent and that you want them to shoot it until they see the failure.

It doesn't do you any good to come on here just to complain. If you are not willing to try to fix anything yourself, then you need to just send it in.

Yeah you're absolutely right, I need to send that round in, show them what is going on. I just really can't figure it out, I'm using all the exact mags it came with (PMAG M2) and the day I got it back from them emptied 3 full pmags (90rds). All different but all good brass stuff that isn't known to be problematic and isn't in other ar's. Doesn't do good to say it is a crappy gun because the guy next to me at the range said his sport never had a problem. S&W can afford ammo I'm sure a lot more than I can so I'll just call them.

 

[cyphertext]

Yep, send it back in with a note detailing the stoppage as much as possible. Send them that pic of the round.... they may not like a live round being sent with the rifle.

And when they do fix it, please come back and let us know what they fixed. We have seen this a couple of times on the board, but have never found out what the fix was.

 

[crracer_712]

I'll apologize in advance, because I didn't want to read the entire thread. I see that you are using all Gen2 Pmags. Is this issue happening with ALL of the mags, or one in particular?

I ask as I've seen a bullet get bent as you pictured due to a Pmag having a weak spring (or at least that is what I attributed it too). Reason being is it was the only mag to cause the issue, and on some rifles it wouldn't hold the bolt open on the last shot (others it would). Problem couldn't be replicated with any other magazine, and even with this particular magazine it couldn't be replicated with regularity. It might bend the 5th shot, the 1st shot or it might function fine for the entire magazine.

If you haven't determined if it is the same magazine, then I'd suggest marking the magazine as soon as this situation arises and move on to another magazine.

 

[Rastoff]

I'll apologize in advance, because I didn't want to read the entire thread.

That's pretty inconsiderate friend. The guy has been beaten to death about magazines and now you come along and pile on just because you're too lazy to read one page? Not cool.