Alternative to Alliant Unique?

[BC38]

I have no idea who would write such a thing as Bullseye is a very fast burning rate powder, Unique is in the medium burning rate area, the two are no where near alike other than being flake style powders.

Agreed 100%.
A lot of experienced handloaders always said that with just Unique, Bullseye, and 2400 they could reload every handgun round there is - from mild plinking loads up to fire-breathing magnums.

 

[38magnum]

dont know what forum it was on, but its said that bullseye and unique are the same chemical compound, only the style of flake different

 

[BC38]

dont know what forum it was on, but its said that bullseye and unique are the same chemical compound, only the style of flake different

Not true. Look at a burn rate chart and you'll see they are a LONG ways apart. Bullseye is #13 and Unique is #31 - with the higher numbers being faster burning (more energetic) powders.
If you look at load data for both for the same cartridge and bullet weight you will see how different they are.
Bullseye and Unique are both Alliant brand powders. If they were the same, why would they make & sell both of them in their own product line?
I think you may be thinking of HP38 and Win231 - they are the same powder, but were packaged and sold under two different brand names.
Or maybe you're thinking of H110 and Win296? They are the another pair of powders that are the same as each other, and they are also packaged and sold under two different brand names.

 

[38magnum]

Not true. Look at a burn rate chart and you'll see they are a LONG ways apart. Bullseye is #13 and Unique is #31 - with the higher numbers being faster burning (more energetic) powders.
If you look at load data for both for the same cartridge and bullet weight you will see how different they are.
Bullseye and Unique are both Alliant brand powders. If they were the same, why would they make & sell both of them in their own product line?
I think you may be thinking of HP38 and Win231 - they are the same powder, but were packaged and sold under two different brand names.
Or maybe you're thinking of H110 and Win296? They are the another pair of powders that are the same as each other, and they are also packaged and sold under two different brand names.

Not thinking of hp-38 and 231.

When i started my searching for alternates to red dot, i kept coming across lots of comments about people just switchign to bullseye they had on hand. I havent had much luck with bullseye.

I came across a thread or maybe an article, its been a month now, but they cited some paperwork from alliant or maybe hercules that bullseye and unique are the same ingredient list, ie both recipes use the same "angel food cake mix from betty crocker", but after mixing, one is put into a bundt cake pan, and the other into a sheet cake pan.

 

[BC38]

Not thinking of hp-38 and 231.

When i started my searching for alternates to red dot, i kept coming across lots of comments about people just switchign to bullseye they had on hand. I havent had much luck with bullseye.

I came across a thread or maybe an article, its been a month now, but they cited some paperwork from alliant or maybe hercules that bullseye and unique are the same ingredient list, ie both recipes use the same "angel food cake mix from betty crocker", but after mixing, one is put into a bundt cake pan, and the other into a sheet cake pan.

OK, well, if you're that convinced by what you think you read somewhere, feel free to reload some ammo with Bullseye using the load data for Unique.
Let us know how that works out for you. Assuming your hands survive the experiment, and you are still able to type up your results.
Good luck.

 

[taz666]

Not funny.

 

[Krogen]

Not thinking of hp-38 and 231.

When i started my searching for alternates to red dot, i kept coming across lots of comments about people just switchign to bullseye they had on hand. I havent had much luck with bullseye.

I came across a thread or maybe an article, its been a month now, but they cited some paperwork from alliant or maybe hercules that bullseye and unique are the same ingredient list, ie both recipes use the same "angel food cake mix from betty crocker", but after mixing, one is put into a bundt cake pan, and the other into a sheet cake pan.

Oh my.... It's not that simple. Cake mix? Really? I suggest you pay attention to the knowledgeable folks on this forum. Don't bother quoting "some article" from the net if you can't even cite the source.

BC38 is exactly right. If you load Bullseye in the same charge weights as a Unique load, you're likely to blow up or damage a gun. You may well damage yourself. Picking the right powder and charge is serious business.

Bullseye and Unique may start out with the same raw material, but there are further processing steps that make the finished products different. Granule shapes, sizes and deterrents come to mind. I am no expert on powder production, but I will tell you: Bullseye and Unique are NOT interchangeable.

In fact even seemingly similar powders are not interchangeable. For example IMR4895 and H4895 are not perfectly interchangeable. There are some, though, that are the same powder with different labels. For example 231 and HP38, or 296 and H110.

As a final note, be cautious about what you read and don't assume you or the writer are correct.

 

[rockquarry]

Data and just about everything else as it comes from paper handloading manuals are safer and more reliable than much of what one finds on the Internet. Verify all Internet information using paper manuals. Many today choose not to pay for handloading manuals because of free data on the Internet, but such books generally represent money well spent. Get several for comparison purposes.

Consider that many of those who offer their expert advice on handloading on gun forums or YouDupe "earned" their handloading education on the Internet. Sort of like getting a college degree from an unaccredited college in a third world country.

 

[Chubbs103]

Unique and Bullseye are both double-base powders. That means the primary ingredients are nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine.

Bullseye, like Titegroup and other fast burning, double-base powders, has a high nitroglycerine content. I've seen 30%-40% listed for some of these fast powders. This is why they etch powder dispenser tubes. Probably why Titgroup burns so hot.

I have never seen a nitroglycerine content listed for Unique. I do know it doesn't etch a powder dispenser like fast powders do.

I have seen the statements on line about Bullseye and Unique being the same formula, but different granularity before. I have even seen it attributed to researcher and author Klaus Neuschaefer. I know the differences in burn rates. I have used both powders for decades. I have always been skeptical about the formula vs grain size discussion. I've also never been involved in the manufacture of smokeless powder.

 

[BC38]

Not funny.

Agreed. It isn't funny when someone continues insisting that bad info isn't bad info - and won't be dissuaded from continuing to repeat it.
Someone who doesn't know better might be convinced and end up getting hurt.
That isn't funny at all.
Reloading is serious business.

 

[Krogen]

Agreed. It isn't funny when someone continues insisting that bad info isn't bad info - and won't be dissuaded from continuing to repeat it.
Someone who doesn't know better might be convinced and end up getting hurt.
That isn't funny at all.
Reloading is serious business.

Note that the posts of said person, 38magnum, have "disappeared."

 

[BC38]

Data and just about everything else as it comes from paper handloading manuals are safer and more reliable than much of what one finds on the Internet. Verify all Internet information using paper manuals. Many today choose not to pay for handloading manuals because of free data on the Internet, but such books generally represent money well spent. Get several for comparison purposes.

Consider that many of those who offer their expert advice on handloading on gun forums or YouDupe "earned" their handloading education on the Internet. Sort of like getting a college degree from an unaccredited college in a third world country.

I couldn't agree more.
The only internet info I have any real confidence in is what is published by the powder companies themselves. And I still double-check even that.

 

[BC38]

Note that the posts of said person, 38magnum, have "disappeared."

Probably a good thing.

 

[pasound]

Noted that too. Admins are doing a good job.

 

[Chubbs103]

This led me down a rabbit hole I wasn't expecting.
I wound up reading: "The Smokeless Powders of Laflin & Rand and their
Fate 100 Years after Assimilation by DuPont" by Klaus Neuschaefer; 2007.

The author does state he believes that Bullseye and Unique have the same formula (to include 40% nitroglycerine) but different granulation. I think what has been missed when people quote this is a discussion earlier in the document that talks about the evolution of Infallible shotgun powder (that ultimately becomes Unique) and a "graphite coating to help control
burning speed and to aid in handling" (Neuschaefer, Klaus. "The Smokeless Powders of Laflin & Rand and their Fate 100 Years after Assimilation by DuPont." 2007. pg. 37)

Really, this is just an interesting diversion to my day. I will continue to be a conservative hand loader and stay within the bounds of published data.

 

[GypsmJim]

I couldn't agree more.
The only internet info I have any real confidence in is what is published by the powder companies themselves. And I still double-check even that.

I used Bullseye, Unique and IMR 3031 as my ONLY 3 powders for over 40 years. With the current state of availability I have had to broaden my horizons.

I have probably a dozen different published loading manuals. When I have to develop a new load I look at ALL of them and then use a consensus. Also, start on the low side.

 

[BE Mike]

Unique and Bullseye are both double-base powders. That means the primary ingredients are nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine.

Bullseye, like Titegroup and other fast burning, double-base powders, has a high nitroglycerine content. I've seen 30%-40% listed for some of these fast powders. This is why they etch powder dispenser tubes. Probably why Titgroup burns so hot.

I have never seen a nitroglycerine content listed for Unique. I do know it doesn't etch a powder dispenser like fast powders do.

I have seen the statements on line about Bullseye and Unique being the same formula, but different granularity before. I have even seen it attributed to researcher and author Klaus Neuschaefer. I know the differences in burn rates. I have used both powders for decades. I have always been skeptical about the formula vs grain size discussion. I've also never been involved in the manufacture of smokeless powder.

I use Alliant Bullseye in my 9mm and .45ACP loads. I leave it in my Dillon powder measures, like I've done for decades. The plastic tubes of the powder measures get a little yellow, but nothing that is what I'd call bothersome.

 

[rosewood]

Looking at load data, it does appear BE-86 is dang close to Unique. I recently loaded some 124 Gold dots in 9mm with BE-86, got a Spread of like 4 with SD of 1.14. Never seen one that low before, was 5 shot string. Tested again with different brass yesterday and the SD was like 4 with ES of like 10, so it is pretty consistent at least with that load.

Rosewood

 

[Tlf65]

I bought a pound of unique but could never get it to meter consistently in my Hornady powder measure. Of the pistol powders I have used the most consistent metering are Titegroup, Universal, and WST.

 

[stansdds]

I bought a pound of unique but could never get it to meter consistently in my Hornady powder measure. Of the pistol powders I have used the most consistent metering are Titegroup, Universal, and WST.

Unique can be difficult to meter in small charges.