Alternative to expensive cylinder shims for endshake

[SWRevolverFan47]

I bought a S&W Model 14-3 on Gunbroker and noticed when I received it that it has excessive endshake. A few Google searches later, I found that Brownells and Midway USA both want an astonishing $15.50 to $16 + S&H for 10 shims of the same size (.002" or .004"). In my case I need to remove .005" of endshake, so no combination of these shims will remove all the endshake from my revolver.

Luckily, I came across an alternative. On the Trigger Shims website (S&W K L N Shim Kit) you can buy sets of 2, 4, 6, 12 or 24 shims AND you can specify any combination of .002", .003", .004" and .005" shims that you need. Better yet, prices start at $5 for the two shim pack, including shipping. I ordered a six-pack consisting of four .002" and two .003" shims delivered to my door for only $10.

I am not affiliated in any way with this company; just wanted to share this information with fellow S&W revolver fans who blanch at the idea of paying $2 each for washers.

I should probably also mention that I haven't received the washers yet, so can't comment on the accuracy of their thickness or their construction. I'll come back and post about that upon receipt and installation.

 

[armorer951]

Ref the quality of the shims and the customer service from Michigan Center Outdoors (Lance Shively)....you won't be disappointed. Great products.

Triggershims.com

 

[DWalt]

My local gunsmith gives me shims when I need them. He always has several dozen. That's even cheaper.

 

[Dr Denby]

Thanks for that, SWRF

A great resource. I was just looking around for a couple shims for an old wheeler I picked up over the weekend.

Doc

 

[.455_Hunter]

Unfortunately, most S&W's that I have found with excessive end-shake from heavy usage will also exhibit excessive cylinder gap- a problem the the washers will only promote.

 

[Milton]

I have bought a lot of shims from Lance for several purposes and his products are great!Great to deal with also!

 

[Hapworth]

...In my case I need to remove .005" of endshake, so no combination of these shims will remove all the endshake from my revolver...

Actually, a .004" shim would be perfect for .005" endshake; you don't want to dial endshake down to zero, but instead closer to .001" or a hair over, otherwise you risk binding from thermal expansion or stacking tolerances.

 

[Hapworth]

Unfortunately, most S&W's that I have found with excessive end-shake from heavy usage will also exhibit excessive cylinder gap- a problem the the washers will only promote.

The washers don't promote the problem -- barrel-to-cylinder gap measurement remains the same with or without the washer because gap's measured with the cylinder held back, an effect the washer also achieves.

 

[Alk8944]

The washers don't promote the problem -- barrel-to-cylinder gap measurement remains the same with or without the washer because gap's measured with the cylinder held back, an effect the washer also achieves.

It is absolutely amazing how few seem to understand this!

 

[SWRevolverFan47]

Unfortunately, most S&W's that I have found with excessive end-shake from heavy usage will also exhibit excessive cylinder gap- a problem the the washers will only promote.

When the revolver is fired the cylinder is pushed back, so the cylinder gap is the sum of the actual gap between cylinder and forcing cone plus the end-shake. Installing the washers will reduce the end-shake, resulting in the cylinder gap being smaller than before the repair.

 

[SWRevolverFan47]

Good point

Actually, a .004" shim would be perfect for .005" endshake; you don't want to dial endshake down to zero, but instead closer to .001" or a hair over, otherwise you risk binding from thermal expansion or stacking tolerances.

You may very well be right that I'll end up using two. 002" shims. I'll try that and measure again, then decide whether to switch one out with a .003". Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[.455_Hunter]

It is absolutely amazing how few seem to understand this!

OK- "Promote" may have been the wrong word, but when washers are used, any gap problems become blatantly obvious. The only S&W that I have found had acceptable gap after end shake correction was a low round count 624 that was rubbing on the back of the barrel as a factory defect.

Chances are that if your heavily used S&W needs end shake washers, your are not going to be happy unless another $150 - $200 is spent to set back the barrel.

 

[.455_Hunter]

When the revolver is fired the cylinder is pushed back, so the cylinder gap is the sum of the actual gap between cylinder and forcing cone plus the end-shake. Installing the washers will reduce the end-shake, resulting in the cylinder gap being smaller than before the repair.

Sorry- You have it backwards. The washers force the cylinder to the maximum gap position.

I wish just washers would fix both problems!

 

[chief38]

You do NOT need the exact amount of shim washers being exactly equal to the end-shake. In other words if your ES is .005" then use either two .002" or 1 .004" shims. This will take out 80% of the ES and will work just fine. A slight amount of ES will not cause Revolver to malfunction.

There is also another method that the old time GS used and that is to stretch the Yoke by putting cuts into the tube. Sort of like a pipe cutter but instead of cutting through, you just stretch the metal to make it slightly longer. Brownells sells the tool but is even more costly than using the shims. The shims are also much easier for a novice to use - just remove ER and drop them in. Removal or future adjustment is a piece of cake. I have never stretched a Yoke using the tool and have often wondered if the cuts will over time close up and increase the ES. I have always used shims when ES removal is required.

 

[scooter123]

Chief, the Yoke Stretcher acts to thin the wall thickness of the yoke tube in a localized spot. When you squeeze the wall thinner that material must go somewhere and where it goes is into the length. Since the Yoke Tube is Steel it's not going to "shrink" from use, so this method of correcting End Shake can be considered as permanent as using shims.

 

[755]

Hello All
I have and have used the crane stretcher tool from brownells. It does work if used properly. The proper crane aligment tool must be inside the crane when used to keep inside dimension correct. Rear of crane should be faced off square with a piloted cutter for both methods to work properly. Just my two cents worth. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

 

[jpage]

So,end shake is fore and aft movement of the cylinder ?

 

[Hapworth]

So,end shake is fore and aft movement of the cylinder ?

Yes, cylinder end play -- or endshake -- is the fore and aft movement of the cylinder on the yoke barrel while in battery. It's measured using feeler gauges and measuring barrel-cylinder gap first with the cylinder held forward, then rearward; the difference is the amount of endshake. Ideal endshake is around .001"; per Kuhnhausen, beyond about .006" requires correction, though many prefer to correct before this.

 

[ViperR]

Something else nobody mentioned is the inside of the cylinder where the crane tube contacts usually needs to be cut flat since the crane tube batters it. So, the internal of the cylinder and end of the crane tube need to be squared up in order for the shims to be effective. After cleaning those up, then end shake is measured to determine the washers needed. Everything needs to be square and flat. Otherwise, the shims will eventually form to the dished out area in the cylinder and end shake will come back. Add more washers you say? Well, the cylinder will bind and be difficult to turn with the washers being squashed out of shape because of the dished out area in the cylinder.
This is from the S & W repair manual.

 

[SWRevolverFan47]

Update to original post

Sorry- You have it backwards. The washers force the cylinder to the maximum gap position.

I wish just washers would fix both problems!

You're right; I shouldn't type forum posts in my sleep

However, I have an update to my original post. First off, the shims I purchased fit perfectly, and my digital micrometer says they're exactly as thick as advertised. +1 for TriggerShims.com.

I started looking into end-shake after noticing that the cylinder on a used a S&W Model 14-3 revolver I bought on GunBroker was difficult to open and moved forward and backward quite a bit. After reading that a cylinder in this condition can act like a dead-blow hammer when fired and grow progressively worse, I measured the cylinder gap with a feeler gauge at .009” with cylinder pushed all the way back and .005 with it pushed all the way forward.

Found two options for fixing it; adding shims between the extractor rod and cylinder or stretching the cylinder yoke with a special tool. Decided to try shims to take up the slack. I installed a .002” shim, reassembled and found that the cylinder binds when it turns. I didn’t see any indication the extractor rod is bent, and the end of the yoke appears to the naked eye to be even. So I removed the shim and measured again. With no shim in place I now measure only .001” or so of end-shake. I’m happy, but puzzled.

When I first unscrewed the cylinder from the extractor rod, I noticed it was much easier to start turning than I expected. After adding the shim, I tightened it firmly by hand; when I disassembled it again to remove the shim it was noticeably more difficult to start it turning. I wonder if the cylinder had partially unscrewed and caused the appearance of excessive end-shake?

In any event the cylinder opens easily now, so my original problem has been resolved.