Am I alone?

[fredj338]

I think the question should be; for what are you preparing?

If you believe that you will most likely encounter an adversary that is lightly clothed (or unclothed) standing square to you, with no obstacles or limbs between you and his/her COM, and will hold still for you, then sure, .38 or .380, or 9mm are all great calibers that will do the job.

If, however, you don't think those conditions are likely, or believe it's impossible to know what the conditions might be, then it might be wise to plan for worst-case and carry .45 or .357 instead.


We had a saying in flying, "plan for the worst and hope for the best". All the takeoff data is based on three engines (even though we had four). Landing data is based on thrust reversers not opening.

Carry whatever makes you comfortable, but think about all aspects of the scenario most likely to occur. People make a big stink about over penetration, but never consider that you will never be mugged in a crowd of people; you'll be mugged in the alley and there won't be anyone behind the perp, except maybe another perp.

Too much faith in the caliber myths Imo. Its all about the bullet. The 124gr 9mm +, 180gr 40, 230gr 45 all produce about the same energy. So what really matters is does the bullet expand to say 60cal & will it penetrate the magic 13-15". Does not matter in the least what size the bullet starts. I love the 45acp, but if my choice were 45 ball or 9mm 124gr hst +p, its 9mm all the way. Fwiw, the 357mag osnt any better than the service pistol calibers with tje wrong bullet.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Why use a flame thrower to start a fire when a single match will do the job? I read a lot of posts that put down the 38 Special. IMHO a 2" magnum handgun for self defence is OVERKILL squared.

It's not a matter of overkill. Your choice is your choice. I never criticize anyone's choice in defensive weaponry even if I'd never carry whatever is being proposed.

But firing a lightweight J frame 2" .357 Magnum is not for the weak-kneed or faint of heart. The famous phrase, "shot a little, carried a lot" is correct but IMNSHO I kind of agree, they have ridiculously hot recoil and getting off shot number 2 takes way more practice than is pleasurable. I won't touch one and I'm one of those "recoil is your friend" kind of guys.

 

[Dougaz]

Since a magnum round up close is capable of decapitating more than just your adversary wouldn't it be OVERKILL if you took out an innocent bystander as well?

Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any caliber?

 

[Dougaz]

Red heads really are overkill. Why There are so few good looking ones.

Back up the truck!! In the 6th grade, Jennifer Peterson was not only a red head, but the hottest girl in my class. And don't even get me started on Lucille Ball .... Hubba Hubba

 

[Dougaz]

I wonder why US battle ships don't go to war with nothing more than AK-47's?

More is way better than less.

 

[fredj338]

Two suggestions.
1. If you think .357 Magnums are overkill then don't use them.
2. Don't stand behind somebody that is about to be shot by a gun loaded with .357 Magnums.

Nothing over penetrates like 158gr RNL in 38sp & bet a lot of old timers have their snubs loaded with them.

 

[rubiranch]

Back up the truck!! In the 6th grade, Jennifer Peterson was not only a red head, but the hottest girl in my class. And don't even get me started on Lucille Ball .... Hubba Hubba

I love redheads.

 

[crazyphil]

I had S&W model 60, Ruger's SP101, and Taurus 605, all in .357 magnum
with snub barrels. Found myself always carrying my 642-1 and leaving the
magnums home. Why? I could shoot better with the .38, so I sold all 3
magnums. I believe a good hit is better than a more powerful miss.

 

[Narragansett]

I choose not to carry a handgun anymore. However I did as an LEO, and as a civilian for 40 years. Department requirements were 38spl, an OK cartridge IMO. However, I settled on the standard hardball 45 acp when I was going to stick something inside my waste band.Just plain old military hardball ammo. None of this boutique $2.00 a shot stuff that comes in 20 round boxes.

I always figured that the US military did enough testing, across several branches, and that there were graveyards full of combatants from Vietnam to Korea to Germany that wished they had never seen a hardball 45 acp, and while the 9mm is the standard NATO round of today, the 45 acp is still used extinsively by the US military. just not as the standard issue sidearm

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Amusingly enough, I am aware of the bullet he's referring to, it was not designed to pierce an engine block, cannot pierce an engine block, and is the origin of yet another enduring, comically nonsensical Urban Legend.

KTW Teflon-Coated "Cop-Killer" Bullets

The bullet he is referring to was a steel-core, hard brass semiwadcutter bullet with a green teflon coating to protect the rifling. The bullet was designed for and marketed towards Law Enforcement, but eventually the media did what they're famous for and ran sensationalist reports about how it was "Cop-Killer" ammunition, complete with outrageous claims that it's amazing armor-piercing capabilities were all thanks to the special coating on the outside of the bullet.

Eventually the bullet was taken off the market and the company who produced it went away, but the bullet had left it's mark upon the world by spawning the silly urban legend that teflon-coatings somehow make bullets armor-piercing, not to mention popularized the "Cop-Killer Bullets" buzzword as well as armor-piercing bullets being green-tipped in popular culture which eventually became reality as modern armor-piercing ammo is often marked with a green tip.

I remember the KTW cartridges, specifically designed to maximize penetration, lots of testing on automobile windshields, car doors, and other potential obstacles.

There were also Teflon-coated bullets for a while. Then there were the NyClad (nylon coated) bullets. These were primarily designed for indoor range use in law enforcement training with the actual goal being reduction of airborne lead and associated health risks. TV talking heads of the time breathlessly reported these as "cop killer" bullets because they were more capable of penetrating Kevlar body armor used by police.

Then there were the Winchester "Black Talons", one of the earlier truly high-performance expanding hollow points. Again, the TV reporters ganged up on reporting these as so overly destructive to human tissue that they should be banned. Winchester withdrew these products from the civilian market and limited sales to law enforcement only (I still have several boxes purchased over 25 years ago, highly collectible and now bringing $150 to $200-plus per box).

Back in the early 1970's I carried one cartridge box loaded with WW .357 Armor Piercing while on duty. 158-grain pointed bullet with hardened steel core and brass jacket. In my own testing these would zip through car bodies, windshields, and even concrete block like a hot knife through butter. Shooting into the engine compartment from the front the most damage I could cause was breaking a water pump housing (after punching through the grill and radiator). These would also punch through both front and rear panels of the Second Chance Kevlar body armor.

All of these ammunition types have been withdrawn from the civilian market, and most are prohibited for sale to the public.

 

[Echo40]

Red heads really are overkill. Why There are so few good looking ones.

Because they tend to be crazy and crazy people aren't especially known for taking good care of themselves.

I love redheads.

The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy. Literally every natural redhead I've ever met was at least a little crazy. In fact, the last woman I ever dated was (you guessed it) a fiery redhead, and she was absolutely out of her mind. That was over eight years ago and I've been celibate ever since.

So yeah, definitely keep your wits about you when romantically involved with redheads, they seem like fun, wild and exciting, but once things start to get serious... Well, to tell you the truth I'd rather not think about it.

By the way, I say this as a man with a bit of a red in his hair.

 

[joe44va]

As soon as you unholster your firearm, you are alone.

 

[Rustyt1953]

The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy.

I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?

 

[Echo40]

I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?

Ugh... Please don't be like that, okay? I'm just joking around, making light of my own negative experiences with redheads. It was never meant to be taken as a definitive statement nor was it meant to offend anyone.

I'm sure that there are redheads who are not in fact crazy and that your wife is a lovely lady.

So lighten up, okay? I know that things are really miserable right now with COVID-19, the riots, Presidential Election on the horizon, and all the politics that come with it, which is precisely why I'm trying to joke around and lighten the mood.
Frankly, I've been miserable as heck lately with just about everything going wrong for the past few days, and this is me trying not to cheer myself up and maybe a few other folks in the process.

 

[tops]

I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?

I have done a limited study. In a past life I dated a redhead and she was a psycho.
After a few dates I decided to leave her where I found her. Larry

 

[rubiranch]

Because they tend to be crazy and crazy people aren't especially known for taking good care of themselves.



The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy. Literally every natural redhead I've ever met was at least a little crazy. In fact, the last woman I ever dated was (you guessed it) a fiery redhead, and she was absolutely out of her mind. That was over eight years ago and I've been celibate ever since.

So yeah, definitely keep your wits about you when romantically involved with redheads, they seem like fun, wild and exciting, but once things start to get serious... Well, to tell you the truth I'd rather not think about it.

By the way, I say this as a man with a bit of a red in his hair.

Deep down inside my ex was a redhead. LOL

 

[pawngal]

Hey, guys! I'm a redhead. But I work and play in a male dominated world, got to be a little crazy to do that!

Sure a lot of guys think I'm more than that little bit crazy because I like guns, used to hunt, I drive a pickup, and own 2 foreign sporty cars. I'm just too independent for some guys.

 

[Echo40]

Oh boy, now I've done it...

I guess I'll have to clarify exactly what behavior I'm referring to as insane, while keeping it as PG-13 as possible...

I once knew a redhead who told me the chilling tale of how she had attempted to commit suicide in a rather grisly fashion in a place where her "daddy" would find her body to get even with him for not spending enough time with her, but he came home early, caught her in the act and saved her life, which only made her angrier with him. THAT'S CRAZY! And sadly, it's not my only experience with a crazy redhead either!

So yeah, when I say "crazy" I don't mean they're quirky, kinky, a tomboy, or any other such figures of speech used to describe mildly unusual behavior. M'kay?!

Oh, and for the last time, I'm not saying that all redheads are like that either, so cool it and let's get back on-topic, shall we?

Sheesh, me and my big mouth...

 

[Muss Muggins]

So from one experience that you can document here, and a few others that you decline to elaborate on, you can affirmatively pronounce that many women of a certain hair color that you are associated with are crazy. Seems to me like that's why we are we where are as a country now . . .

Oh boy, now I've done it...

I guess I'll have to clarify exactly what behavior I'm referring to as insane, while keeping it as PG-13 as possible...

I once knew a redhead who told me the chilling tale of how she had attempted to commit suicide in a rather grisly fashion in a place where her "daddy" would find her body to get even with him for not spending enough time with her, but he came home early, caught her in the act and saved her life, which only made her angrier with him. THAT'S CRAZY! And sadly, it's not my only experience with a crazy redhead either!

So yeah, when I say "crazy" I don't mean they're quirky, kinky, a tomboy, or any other such figures of speech used to describe mildly unusual behavior. M'kay?!

Oh, and for the last time, I'm not saying that all redheads are like that either, so cool it and let's get back on-topic, shall we?

Sheesh, me and my big mouth...

 

[ContinentalOp]

I've seen threads get derailed before, but this is ridiculous...