Am I chasing a ghost?...

[Truckman]

Some may have seen my thread about my BBQ gun and its older yet smaller brother (pictured below)...When I first bought the N-frame .38-44 HD my intention was to fix the pushoff, clean it up and sell it or trade it for something better...But it shined up so purdy that it started to grow on me...Then I wondered how it would look with stag grips, so while I was haggling over the ones I wanted, the K-frame BSR caught my eye and I wound up buying it too...

Both guns are shiny, one chrome, the other nickel, both .38 Spl., both 5 screw, both square butt and both have half-moon front sights...So as the search started for matching stag grips for the K-frame, I started to wonder if I could score a trifecta...Now the search is on for a J-frame Chief's Special with all the characteristics of the other two: .38 Spl., square butt, shiny nickel, 5 screw and the half-moon front sight...But does such an animal exist?...

My reading in SCSW suggests that it might...Barrel length makes no difference to me and I don't even care if all the features are original...I already found a set of J-frame stag grips, so now I have to find a gun to put them on...So I ask the help of those more knowledgeable than me (which includes just about everyone), what are my odds of finding this gun to complete my trifecta?...

While that question gets pondered, I'll be on the lookout at this weekend's gun show for the K-frame stags to mount on the BSR......Ben

 

[Hondo44]

Ben,

No it's not a ghost, they were made in quantity, but only with 4 screws. The combination of nickel finish and sq butt is a little harder to find but they're out there. However the 5 screw version (pre 1953 is very rare), you might have to settle for a 4 screw.

See this thread:
Model 36 date and approx value

Good hunting!

 

[murphydog]

Jim, he wants a ".38 Spl., square butt, shiny nickel, 5 screw and the half-moon front sight". A nickel, square butt early Baby Chiefs is a ghost, I think.

 

[Truckman]

Yes I saw that earlier thread, and that's what made me think one might exist...The other guns I pictured are nowhere near original, so if I had to do something radical like reshape a front sight and refinish a later gun without destroying something really valuable, I'll consider it......Ben

 

[Hondo44]

Jim, he wants a ".38 Spl., square butt, shiny nickel, 5 screw and the half-moon front sight". A nickel, square butt early Baby Chiefs is a ghost, I think.

Alan and Ben,

Yes the earliest Baby J frame 5 screw WITH A ROUND SIGHT and a sq butt IS A GHOST.

The pre Model 1953 (Baby J frame with ramp sight) 5 screw sq butt is ALMOST a ghost, but they do exist:

Front, center gun, note the baby J round trigger guard:

Photo credit: bmg60

1. Ideally one of those with a barrel change to the earlier rd sight barrel would give you what you want, but finding one is one issue, the additional issue is its value due to rarity.


2. Your second option would be far easier, and much more possible/reasonable cost wise:

Start with an early Baby J with 1/2 rd sight, occasionally these can be found with lots of wear and little finish for a reasonable price,

Search the auctions for a S&W "parts kit" (an entire gun but with frame cut in half by law enforcement), with a square butt,

Weld sg butt grip frame to your Baby J,

Or build up the original rd butt by welding to the sq butt shape,

Have it nickel plated.


3. Your third option would be most reasonable cost wise, but more involved work wise:

Start with a Model of 1953 sq butt,

Cut, reshape and weld the trigger guard forming the baby J rounder trigger guard,

Add the 5th screw, plunger, and spring in front of the modified trigger guard,

Remove barrel rib and ramp front sight, and install a 1/2 round sight, or replace barrel with early Baby J barrel with rd front sight if you can find one.

Have it nickel plated.


Nothing is impossible with the right level of determination...and money.

 

[handejector]

....or just settle for a Pre War or Transition Nickel 38 Regulation Police in 38 S&W.

 

[handejector]

.......or buy a rough, early Baby Chief, have it nickeled, and round butt the other two.

 

[Hondo44]

....or just settle for a Pre War or Transition Nickel 38 Regulation Police in 38 S&W.

That's not a bad idea!

In fact these have been converted to .38 Special at very reasonable cost. A cyl swap to a J frame cyl and with or w/o a barrel change is very practical.
The cyl will need to be faced off about 1/8" and if the barrel is retained, shortening and recutting of the forcing cone. It's very functional with wadcutter or semi wadcutter ammunition.

The later Magna grips can be easily adapted to the rd rebated grip frame with a small piece of filler wood on the back strap and butt. Either the Pre War or Post war Transitional Reg Police models will even be a better match to the other two frames you have due to their leaf mainspring and 6 screws instead of the J frame coil spring with only 5 screws.


Regulation Police extended square butt I frame grips are made for the rd butt grip frame with the cutout (rebate) on the lower backstrap.

Regulation Police I frame square butt grips that require the rebated rd butt grip frame.

Photo credit: handejector

This shows special grip frame for Reg Police grips; notice the notched area on the bottom half of the grip frame backstrap:

Photo credit: handejector

 

[Truckman]

Nothing is impossible with the right level of determination...and money.

To quote a slogan attributed to the US Army Ordnance Department in 1942...

"The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer."

The money part might present a challenge though (and seriously, thanks for all the responses, folks)......Ben

 

[StrawHat]

Why not a Model 36 or 36-1, nickel 3” barrel and fit a dime for the front sight?

Kevin

 

[Green Frog]

In the words of Billy Joel, “All it takes is looks and a whole lot of money...”

I’ve often wondered what life would have been like if I had been born handsome and wealthy. The possibilities would be awesome!

Froggie

 

[delcrossv]

Alan and Ben,

Yes the earliest Baby J frame 5 screw WITH A ROUND SIGHT and a sq butt IS A GHOST.

Heck, round butt nickel, with a half moon sight is almost a ghost.

 

[Truckman]

Heck, round butt nickel, with a half moon sight is almost a ghost.

Maybe I can lower my sights into accepting a round butt......Ben

 

[two-bit cowboy]

According to Roy Jinks' book, History of Smith & Wesson, p.224, "The Chiefs Special square butt was introduced on October 14, 1952, at serial number 21,342...."

The last known .38 Chiefs Special serial number with a half-round front sight is 11661, which shipped in April '52, and it's about 5,600 numbers higher than the last previously known half-round sighted Chiefs Special.

From these known facts, you're neither chasing a ghost nor lowering your sights if you want a Chiefs Special with a half-round sight. You cannot acquire something that does not exist.

As an aside, your Victory model is not a factory-produced revolver so if you follow Hondo44's recommendations in post # 5, you won't be breaking any molds by creating your own nickel square butt Chiefs Special with a half-round sight.

 

[Truckman]

As an aside, your Victory model is not a factory-produced revolver so if you follow Hondo44's recommendations in post # 5, you won't be breaking any molds by creating your own nickel square butt Chiefs Special with a half-round sight.

Yessir we determined that in an earlier thread which is why I'm open to all suggestions...Neither of the 1st two in the so-far imaginary trifecta have collector value, only value to this accumulator......Ben

 

[SAFireman]

I can get close.....ramp front, and round butt.....It does have nice Sambar stags

 

[Truckman]

I can get close.....ramp front, and round butt.....It does have nice Sambar stags

I'm thinking I'll have to find something like that to fill in as an interim member of the trifecta until I can find enough donor bodies to construct a Frankengun......Ben