Am I dreaming? (I found some ivory)

[Modified]

The other night I was thinking about how sad it is to part with guns. Even when they were going to a good home, it still stings a bit when they are good guns.

Being cooped up with a baby, even in God's country, has been wearing on me.

I was just about to go to bed when I hit refresh on my ebay search, and saw these. I couldn't really believe my eyes at first, and I knew they weren't perfect, but folding a little bit of that money I got selling guns, back into them, really reduced the sting. Having them in my hands, removed the sting completely.

I'm still not entirely sure which gun they will live on, and I do have some questions for any of you who have and know how to care properly for old ivory, but I figure I have typed enough, here's some pictures of them sitting on one of my Pre-Model 29's. Which don't really do them justice:





This stuff is so hard to photograph, I'll keep trying, but I don't know that I can really relate how gorgeous these things are.





They are not without flaw however.



The right panel in particular is a bit warped which I think is part of why the fit to the backstrap isn't perfect, you can see that a lot better from the bottom:




Now to the questions, as I really have never been able to buy much ivory, and certainly not a set as awesome as this.

1) I've been told that the first thing to do is a 24hr mineral oil bath. Correct? Incorrect? Something better I should do?

2) After that it's a matter of putting them on a gun and just snugging them up every 6mo-1yr and hoping that right panel starts to un-warp.

Looks like there is a bit of shrinkage, but the fit issue is more related to the warping of the right panel there.

3) The medallions look like they came from an old set, Gold medallions. So these are obviously not factory targets. Or am I wrong?

4) The small relief cut dates them to be in line with what the seller told me: about 1960. Correct?

5) Just how uncommon is a set like this? I've seen them on some of your very fine engraved guns, and a few pictures of sets that guys on this forum have, but I really had never seen a set for sale before these. At least not publicly.

6) How the dickens do I photograph these properly? Anyone have any tips?

7) If they can't be straightened out, should I attempt to use them to follow Lee's lead? http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...h-pachyderm-la-roper.html?highlight=pachyderm

8) Am I truly a bad bad man who deserves to be killed in my sleep and relieved of these (as some of my close friends have informed me when I showed them these).

 

[Dave from Pa]

"1) I've been told that the first thing to do is a 24hr mineral oil bath. Correct? Incorrect? Something better I should do?"

Correct IMO I would do that as you are reading this.Great pair of grips leave them just as they are.Great find good for you.

 

[505Gibbs]

Congratulations on your score!
So much for Ebay not allowing ivory to be sold!
Take them off and get them 'wet'[don't immerse] and do both sides.
Check after a day.

 

[paplinker]

I would see if they fit on a prewar frame. You would think its likely going to fit because of the old medallion but have owned sets where the age of the medallion had no bearing.

I also use mineral oil on my ivory grips. I use it to prevent shrinkage.

I have not heard that ivory has the same flexibility when soaked, as some woods have. I would be very careful,especially with it being a target panel. There are so many more pressure points than a magna.

Good luck, they are beautiful grips.

 

[andy52]

Those are gorgeous. I have a couple of sets of ivory stock but have never seen a set with such a variation in color as the ones you just got.

PS as to #8 no your not and if your friends don't understand the history of these kind of things maybe you need new ones.
You are not reasonable for the action of others, even though I would not advocate harvesting new ivory.

 

[goatsnguns]

Congratulations Caleb, I saw these when they were first posted, as "Fossilized Ivory", which clearly they were not. I figured that eBay would yank them momentarily, and thought to myself if they are there when I next look, I will go for them. Glad to see a member got them.
Not sure about straightening them, but I am sure there is much info on the net. Good luck with them.

 

[colt_saa]

Congratulations.
Those have very nice coloring to them

Congratulations on your score!
So much for Ebay not allowing ivory to be sold!

Quite often some sneak around the rules. Since most of their policing is done by software, just do not use words like Ivory or Tusk

With the knives, I just always say they have natural handles because they are now going after Tortoise and Mastodon and Mammoth and Walrus and Seal

With Narwhal, I just call it unicorn and it gets past the Censor

 

[delcrossv]

Congratulations.
Those have very nice coloring to them



Quite often some sneak around the rules. Since most of their policing is done by software, just do not use words like Ivory or Tusk

With the knives, I just always say they have natural handles because they are now going after Tortoise and Mastodon and Mammoth and Walrus and Seal

With Narwhal, I just call it unicorn and it gets past the Censor

"Chinese folk medicine aphrodisiac" grips, handles etc.

Regardless of naming convention, they're gorgeous.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Gorgeous stocks! Good luck with them and enjoy them forever.

With Narwhal, I just call it unicorn and it gets past the Censor

OMG!!! That is too funny for words. Is it true or just a great joke? Either way it's funny!!!

 

[arjay]

If they are dried out the oil should expand them a bit and may close up that gap. Those are really pretty!

 

[Modified]

Congratulations on your score!
So much for Ebay not allowing ivory to be sold!
Take them off and get them 'wet'[don't immerse] and do both sides.
Check after a day.

Plenty of ivory is sold on ebay, in the antiques it's usually called "bovine bone". In gun stocks sometimes Ivory actually gets sold as Ivory, in this case it was listed as fossilized. I have seen quite a few auctions pulled, I assume because someone reports it.

Excellent regarding the mineral oil, it is now underway.

Is there a reason not to completely bathe them? I was told that the thing to do with old ivory was to submerse it in mineral oil until small bubbles stop coming out of it.

Those are gorgeous. I have a couple of sets of ivory stock but have never seen a set with such a variation in color as the ones you just got.

PS as to #8 no your not and if your friends don't understand the history of these kind of things maybe you need new ones.
You are not reasonable for the action of others, even though I would not advocate harvesting new ivory.

That was a bit of a joke. I'm friends with no one I know of who is worried about the ethics of buying 60 year old ivory. They were commenting on how much they hate me for seeing the auction before they did.

I've actually pointed a number of my friends to ivory auctions, all of a generation where Ivory just wasn't a thing. A few of them have become regular ivory fanatics, scooping up all sorts of bits and bobs of ivory from online auction sights. Those were the ones who were expressing faux jealousy over this set.

Congratulations Caleb, I saw these when they were first posted, as "Fossilized Ivory", which clearly they were not. I figured that eBay would yank them momentarily, and thought to myself if they are there when I next look, I will go for them. Glad to see a member got them.
Not sure about straightening them, but I am sure there is much info on the net. Good luck with them.

I'm so grateful that you didn't pounce on them. They were, and in case it isn't obvious, continue to be a real mood pick me up for me. I haven't had the opportunity to indulge in my gun habit much for quite some time now, and I've been jonesing bad.

I would see if they fit on a prewar frame. You would think its likely going to fit because of the old medallion but have owned sets where the age of the medallion had no bearing.

I also use mineral oil on my ivory grips. I use it to prevent shrinkage.

I have not heard that ivory has the same flexibility when soaked, as some woods have. I would be very careful,especially with it being a target panel. There are so many more pressure points than a magna.

Good luck, they are beautiful grips.

They do not fit a pre-war frame any better, nor do they have relief for the domed screw on the right panel. Good thought though.

Regarding the flexibility, I wasn't really considering that as a "soaked" thing. Merely that if they are properly hydrated with mineral oil, and are mounted to a gun, they may very, very, very, slowly correct themselves.

I have a set of Ropers which were terribly, terribly warped. I put them on a gun and once in a while when I had it out I would notice they were loose, and not really thinking much of it I would snug them down again. Something like 6 (I think) years later I was doing a bit of an audit on my excessive stock of stocks and I was confused about this pair of Ropers. They weren't warped, and for the life of me I didn't remember buying such a nice set. It eventually dawned on me that they had just slowly corrected themselves with me snugging them down now and again.

I'm just hoping that a decade from now the same thing might happen with this set. Never actually tight tight, just snug. Maybe re-snugging them every year or so.

 

[rocknroad]

Plenty of ivory is sold on ebay, in the antiques it's usually called "bovine bone". In gun stocks sometimes Ivory actually gets sold as Ivory, in this case it was listed as fossilized. I have seen quite a few auctions pulled, I assume because someone reports it.

Excellent regarding the mineral oil, it is now underway.

Is there a reason not to completely bathe them? I was told that the thing to do with old ivory was to submerse it in mineral oil until small bubbles stop coming out of it.

I have an old set of ivories, from my Granddad's 1952 Colt, that I immerse in mineral oil. I leave them for 8-10 hours, in a couple of inches of oil. They look great after and I am satisfied that nothing negative comes from immersing them. It only needs to be done once a year or so.

Yours are stunning. Excellent catch.

 

[rct269]

This from the February 14, 2017 letter on my King Super Target Triple Lock: "Smith & Wesson did not offer ivory grips for their "N" frame revolvers. The ivory grips were generally added by the distributor or dealer to fill a special order."

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Kansasgunner]

Those are very nice Caleb! Good luck with the oil soak.

 

[bamabiker]

One of our members advised me to use food grade mineral oil and just put them in a bowl of it. I do that and leave them in it over night. Get them out and wipe off with paper towels. Has worked well for me.
Would love to have a set of targets like that. Last ones I saw were something like $1200 and that's been a few years ago.
Those are gorgeous.

 

[Timb1]

Let us see the back of those grips. It’s been several years since I have done any refitting on ivory’s but it worth taking a look.

Speaking of Lee’s ivory ropers I sure would like to see some recent pictures to see how they have aged. It’s hard to believe it’s been over ten years since I worked on them.

 

[Modified]

Let us see the back of those grips. It’s been several years since I have done any refitting on ivory’s but it worth taking a look.

Speaking of Lee’s ivory ropers I sure would like to see some recent pictures to see how they have aged. It’s hard to believe it’s been over ten years since I worked on them.

You are the Tim from that thread!

You did an astonishingly nice job on Lee's Ropers. I've lusted after them since I became aware they existed.

I will get some shots of the back tomorrow after the oiling. I had questions regarding the back anyway. They don't have the...disks (is there a technical term?) that sit at the top, usually behind the medallion. I can't tell if they were ever actually there or not, but I was going to ask what I should do about that.

When I do get shots, is there anything in particular you would want me to get an angle of?

 

[Keith Brown]

Hi Caleb, absolutely beautiful is a good place to start in describing them. I have no experience in trying to correct the warp in old ivory, but my advice would be to proceed slowly and not try and undo in a week what took probably at least a half century to happen. As to Tim’s ability to refit old ivory, based on what he did with Lee’s I would go to him for advice on the subject. Hi Tim !

 

[2152hq]

Do the oil thing. Mineral oil is fine, another term for it is Baby Oil. In all it's terms it's highly refined petro oil.

What damages (cracks), shrinks and warps ivory the most is excessive heat and low humidity.

The OP's grips I'd give a cleaning and Baby Oil treatment to. Place them back on the gun and tighten the screw just snug.
Then place the gun in a place away from any direct heat. Assuming the humidity in the house will rise and fall naturally, so will the ivory gain that same degree of moisture content.
That warpage may be from storage at it's former home in a very low humidity.

See what happens to it on it's own first.

If nothing changes, then the warping may have come from excessive heat during making them.
Use of high speed carving bits, buffing, power sawing can easily crack ivory from the start. They can be used, but carefully.
Quick-setting an epoxy glue repair or glued in escutcheon in ivory w/a hair dryer or heat gun can cause the ivory to crack in minutes.
Heat destroys natural ivory.

The ivory may have been a bit 'green' yet when worked.
Ivory is just like gunstock blanks. It has to be stacked and dried correctly and completely before being worked. No forced drying.

 

[Modified]

Do the oil thing. Mineral oil is fine, another term for it is Baby Oil. In all it's terms it's highly refined petro oil.

What damages (cracks), shrinks and warps ivory the most is excessive heat and low humidity.

The OP's grips I'd give a cleaning and Baby Oil treatment to. Place them back on the gun and tighten the screw just snug.
Then place the gun in a place away from any direct heat. Assuming the humidity in the house will rise and fall naturally, so will the ivory gain that same degree of moisture content.
That warpage may be from storage at it's former home in a very low humidity.

See what happens to it on it's own first.

If nothing changes, then the warping may have come from excessive heat during making them.
Use of high speed carving bits, buffing, power sawing can easily crack ivory from the start. They can be used, but carefully.
Quick-setting an epoxy glue repair or glued in escutcheon in ivory w/a hair dryer or heat gun can cause the ivory to crack in minutes.
Heat destroys natural ivory.

The ivory may have been a bit 'green' yet when worked.
Ivory is just like gunstock blanks. It has to be stacked and dried correctly and completely before being worked. No forced drying.

Excellent information, thank you very much.

This place is quite low humidity, I would imagine I will need to keep them oiled with this food grade mineral oil I have from time to time here. There is no excessive heat where I will be storing them though, so that is good.