Amazing Valuations

[BC38]

Isn't it weird how some people are convinced that what they have a gun that is worth its weight in gold - regardless of any evidence to the contrary?

I just exchanged emails with a local guy selling a M66 who is convinced it is worth $800 - $1000 and "backed it up" with a couple of GunBroker auction links with those kinds of starting prices. Of course those auctions had no bidders, and dozens just like them have recently run for days or weeks and then closed with no bidders.

I politely pointed this out and showed him what the closing price was for several auctions where the gun actually sold - in the $500-$700 range. I even provided him to a link on this forum where the resident experts discussed an almost identical gun - and everybody agreed that $500 +/- was the right price range for a non-collector grade M66.

HOLY COW! You'd think I told him that his wife AND their baby were both ugly or something! The last response I got from him was full of profanity and called me several rather ugly names. I mean the guy really went OFF!

I can understand a seller holding the line on his price if that's what he feels he needs to do, but GEEZ buddy, at least keep it civil. I mean, does anybody expect people to just automatically agree to the asking price on any used gun? Especially when its over-priced to begin with?

If the guy had just said "this is what I have into it so this is what I have to get out of it" I could respect that. But swearing a blue streak and name calling? C'mon man, that's unnecessary, lets be grown-ups about it....

 

[sw1834]

People that act like that are no better than common re-sellers. There are alot of people that buy things for no better reason than to try to sell them for a profit. Houses, diamonds, ammo, guns, you name it...people will try to profit from it.
You probably ran into a guy that paid too much to start with, or needs more than what it's worth.
In my family we don't sell. If it's worth buying...it's worth keeping and handing down.

SWCA #1834

 

[cussedemgun]

He's trolling for one of P.T. Barnum's finest

HOLY COW! You'd think I told him that his wife AND their baby were ugly or something! The last response I got from him was full of profanity and called me several rather ugly names. I mean the guy really went OFF!

Assuming a person (of normal intelligence) has an open mind & is willing to learn from other's point of view, he would welcome discussion & opinion if backed by fact such as your method of pricing.

It's just plain STUPID to try to make up for lack of reasoning with volume & profanity.

There is an ad running now on the local facebook guncycle forum. A man has misc. gun related items for sale, one of which is a RCBS shell holder for 223/5.56 for $40 - - -
& when someone pointed out Midway's price was $6&change, his answer "then buy it".

I tell ya, there is no fixing stooped !

 

[zonker5]

Let us not forget the basic rule of firearms trading and selling:

"My stuff is made of gold, is very rare and is in perfect condition, therefore a price of retail + 20% is my bottom dollar. Your stuff is junk and you should be thankful that I will even pick it up and look at it.".

 

[A10]

I have no problem with someone making a profit, but they have to keep in mind that it won't sell if the price is too high....

 

[galena]

It is sort of like the horse dealer who told the old cowboy the horse he as trying to sell was priced at $10,000. The old cowboy looked at the horse and said; "In that case, I'll trade you my two $5000 cowdogs for him."

 

[brucev]

Re: OP. Sorry to read of your experience. Some people are like an irregular verb, they act but just about always contrary to any common rules of conduct. You can try to reason with such people. But don't expect much. Just be civil and let them blow. It is about all they know. If they begin to be verbally abusive, simply tell them that you are no interested in continuing the discussion and walk away. That will allow you to preserve your dignity and integrity. And, it is the number one most effective way to silence such irregular people when they start acting out. You see, they need an audience. They need to be seen and heard. It really upsets them when they loose their audience.

 

[Fredo Batali]

But if you could take a little less...

De Oppresso Liber

 

[williamlayton]

So---what did you loose ? Nothing ?
It is over and done with---move on.
Blessings

 

[BC38]

....You probably ran into a guy that paid too much to start with, or needs more than what it's worth...

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The only logical reason I can see for his reaction is that he overaid for it and took my pointing out its true value as an insult...

...There is an ad running now on the local facebook guncycle forum. A man has misc. gun related items for sale, one of which is a RCBS shell holder for 223/5.56 for $40 - - -
& when someone pointed out Midway's price was $6 & change, his answer "then buy it"...

Yeah when I showed him the difference between the successful and unsuccessful GB auctions, that was his reaction too "If that's what you THINK then find one and buy it". I responded by saying it was't just what I think, and gave him the link to the thread on here about the value of the same gun (M66 with 4" barrel). That's when he went off. Guess he just couldn't handle being confronted with overwhelming evidence that he was wrong.

So---what did you loose ? Nothing ? It is over and done with---move on.

True, I lost nothing - and I am moving on. Sad thing is that he will probably sucker someone else who hasn't done their research into buying it or trading for it - for a lot more than its worth. OH WELL, it won't be me! Caveat emptor!

 

[Doug627]

Maybe the guy's wife and kid are ugly and he is in perpetual bad mood. Having an ugly wife and ugly kid would be rough.

 

[redlevel]

People that act like that are no better than common re-sellers.
SWCA #1834

What's wrong with buying something and selling it for a profit?
We used to call them Capitalists or entrepreneurs.
Now, we call them gougers, "common re-sellers," and worse.
Buy Low and Sell High. It is what made this country great.
The American Way, so to speak.

This is not to excuse the actions of the seller described in the OP.

 

[SgtLumpy]

... Guess he just couldn't handle being confronted with overwhelming evidence that he was wrong.

The guy's not "wrong". The price of the widget is simply more than you want to pay. Simple as that.

You apparently found prices somewhere else that ARE what you're willing to pay. Why not buy them? What purpose is there in wasting time with the one that's priced too high for you?


Sgt Lumpy

 

[kamloops67]

the other side

for fun i thought i would share a couple recent incidents, just to represent "the other side".
i had a listing up a couple weeks back for a near new revolver shot 15 rnds of 22, (non-smith) stating in my add the retail price was 375 +tax i was asking 350 shipped.
a guy sent me a rude email like "oh,really bs?!!" with a link to a lower retail price. i replied asking if he would like to make an offer, never heard anything back. what was his point?
another guy offered me about half price on a rifle which i ignored ,sold it to another guy at a $20 discount. i wasnt really trading with the halfprice guy yet,hed only enquired then offered a lowball price. but he came unglued when i told him i had sold it. guess he wanted it.

 

[35Rem]

I operate a Facebook gun trader page (local to my area) and I have a zero tollerance policy on "price policing" on the page. You just don't don't tell someone what you think their item is worth in their ad. A LOT of people just don't get that concept.

 

[kamloops67]

I operate a Facebook gun trader page (local to my area) and I have a zero tollerance policy on "price policing" on the page. You just don't don't tell someone what you think their item is worth in their ad. A LOT of people just don't get that concept.

i dont use facebook, are replies to ads visible to all users?

 

[kamloops67]

It is sort of like the horse dealer who told the old cowboy the horse he as trying to sell was priced at $10,000. The old cowboy looked at the horse and said; "In that case, I'll trade you my two $5000 cowdogs for him."

i just did this deal ,a guy was offering a $500 revolver for 750 plus dies and shells for another $150. he was open to trades so i offered him a $550 dollar revolver saying its value was 800+
we both got a taste of high finance ,and we both got the revolver we wanted im sure neither of us were fooled

 

[35Rem]

i dont use facebook, are replies to ads visible to all users?

Absolutely. I encourage private negotiations

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The definition of "fair price" is that amount which a willing buyer will pay and a willing seller will accept, neither party acting under duress.

I would suggest that "duress" has become a significant factor, with many more people competing for the available supply of quality firearms, and a common perception that the future will not include further opportunities.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Ham radio guys will write to you and complain bout your price because the price they remember 25 years ago was a lot less.

I was once selling a guitar amplifier for $200. More than one kid wrote and told me "d00d! They're selling for $100 all day long". I asked them for a link so that I could buy one of those $100 amps. No bites.

Another guy claimed "You can buy a brand new one for $185". Trouble is, these guitar amps haven't been made since 1980.


I've never really understood any of that. Here's a gizmo. It costs XX dollars. Want it? If you do, drop me a note. If you don't want it, don't drop me a note.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Jdavis]

The fact is that some folks honestly feel that the item that they possess is of greater value that the real world thinks. When confronted with the facts embarrassment can turn to anger. I know of a case where a dealer's salesman offered a lower price for a well used foreign made 1911 than the customer wanted in trade for a new rifle. The customer became hostile and abusive and attacked the salesman. Be careful out there, you just don't know who you are dealing with sometimes.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Every one of my guns has a price, which if paid will convince me to part with it. You don't want to pay it-fine-I won't sell it to you. No hard feelings. Vice versa-I have a price that I will pay for a gun-if you want to sell it to me for that, I will buy it. If not-fine; I'll probably buy it from you later at my price (either because over time I have adjusted my price point upward-or the seller has dropped his price ot my price point). Called free market m'boy. If a seller treated my like that guy treated you, I'd tell him to bugger off. BTW if he thinks that his 66 is worth $800-$1000 tell him I got one that I will sell him for $800 and he can turn around and sell it for a quick $200 profit.
Was in a hotly contested negotiation over community property and the husband was sticking to an abusively low price for his hunting camp and only wanted to give my client half as her community share. I asked him if that is what he really thought it was worth and he snarled back at me yes at which time I pulled out my check book and proceeded to write him a check for his asking price.( My banker would have faded the check as his price was about a quarter of what the camp was worth ).
I do so love the marketplace and negotiations

 

[Marshwheeling]

I don't sell a lot of stuff, but I have a lot of stuff (mostly motorcycles) that people want to buy. Sometimes somebody will make me a reasonable offer; if I'm in the mood, then it might sell it.

More often, they 'll ask me if I'm interested in selling something. My answer is always "Make me an offer". If I think they are trying to steal it, I just say no. Then they usually ask me "What's your price?" "I don't have one, but I'll know it if I hear it."

The young man who sought me out and offered a nice price for a Moto Guzzi his father had sold me twenty years before bought his dad's bike back. The guy who wanted to send my Ducati basket case to a restorer in Switzerland bought the bike for his first offer. But the guy who thought I ought to sell him a complete Freeway HMV for $300 went away empty-handed. The guy who gave me $1500 for it a couple of years later was happy to get it. The guy who told me I should sell him three complete Trail 90's for a hunnert bucks went away really ticked off. I'm still using those old Hondas for planters.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BC38]

...I've never really understood any of that. Here's a gizmo. It costs XX dollars. Want it? If you do, drop me a note. If you don't want it, don't drop me a note.

Let me explain. Its called negotiation or, in more common vernacular haggling.

Since it was posted for TRADE rather than for sale, the process started with my asking him what he wanted for it. The assumption being that he opens with a high initial price - more than he actually expects to get. I counter with an offer that is actually less than I am willing to pay - or what I expect him to be willing to take. From there we go back and forth until we arrive at a mutually acceptable number or one of us decides to back out. Pretty simple really

Apparently he didn't understand the process either since he came unglued as soon as I gave him the data I was using as the basis for my offer.

The fact is that some folks honestly feel that the item that they possess is of greater value that the real world thinks. When confronted with the facts embarrassment can turn to anger. I know of a case where a dealer's salesman offered a lower price for a well used foreign made 1911 than the customer wanted in trade for a new rifle. The customer became hostile and abusive and attacked the salesman. Be careful out there, you just don't know who you are dealing with sometimes.

I think this may be the same guy! I'm glad we were just exchanging emails. Face to face one of us might have ended up hurt.

 

[model70hunter]

And then there are the folks who set a price in their mind and will not budge.

In the early 1970's I bought a Winchester Model 12 US riot shot gun off a guy. He had a Model 12 Marked Skeet in 16 gauge hanging in his basement rafters. It had a light coat of rust and some one drilled a hole through the magazine tube holder and magazine, They screwed in a wood screw to hold it together. this made it a single shot Model 12 pump. IT also had a ribbed Skeet 1 BBL.

I wanted it too. He priced it much higher than the 100% Riot gun and about what the price guide listed for a 100% gun. I worked with his son and did not want to push it too hard but explained how the guns value is slightly diminished and it should be available at a lower price.

He would not budge.

I moved to St. Louis in 96 or 97 and hit most of the gun shows. At one show I saw this old gentleman from my original hometown. He had a couple of single shot rifles and 1 rusty Model 12 Skeet in 16 gauge with a screw in it. I told him I remembered this gun, and would still like to own it. The price he spit out was about what the Blue Book called for a 100% one. I told him no thanks, asked where his son is and about the family, said good bye and moved on.

When some folks lock on to a value it never goes lower, only higher.

If anyone has the one of a kind Model 12 single shot 16 gauge skeet I might be interested.

 

[brucev]

Was in a hotly contested negotiation over community property and the husband was sticking to an abusively low price for his hunting camp and only wanted to give my client half as her community share. I asked him if that is what he really thought it was worth and he snarled back at me yes at which time I pulled out my check book and proceeded to write him a check for his asking price.( My banker would have faded the check as his price was about a quarter of what the camp was worth ). Abusively low price? No. He was dealing with your client... his soon to be former wife. It would be no different than if she'd been being forced to set a price on something of value to her, say her books, or shoes, whatever. As to your offer to buy, again irrelevant. He was not interested in selling the camp.

 

[NCTexan]

If I think that my house, car or gun is worth X.... and somebody offers me Y or Z... I would not get mad, offended or insulted.

I just say... "No thank you. I am not selling for that."

It's always crazy to me hearing a realtor say, "Don't offer them something too low or you will INSULT them."

 

[brucev]

Buying, selling, etc. No they are not "capitalists." They are entrepreneurs. Neither is a saint. No vilification of either one, but a important distinction.

Gougers... etc., it's a fair statement. It applies in the same way that the term has been used when farmers needed to move crops to market in an era when railroads entirely controlled the price of transportation with not other alternative available. A very glaring example would be the pricing of rice during the periods of famine that have historically swept through much of the world. In this case, the term is not applicable. But it is not without legitimate usage.

For many who very much appreciate S&W revolvers, price is not simply a reflection of "the market" in the same way that price and appreciation are not always the same as the market when discussion turns to items such as a old family home, a old ratty car, a vase or silver flatware that belonged to so ancestor, etc. There are folks who remember when most of the common buying and selling of guns was among individuals who had that sort of appreciation. Things have changed. There are now many who buy and sell firearms the same way they'd buy and sell horse manure. They don't care a thing about it, it's just something they buy and sell. If the govt. outlaws their selling horse manure, they'll just dump what they have ever how they can and go buy and sell something else. It doesn't mean anything to them. They don't have any regard for how their actions will help or hurt the appreciation of what they sell. They'd sell a original copy of the Declaration of Independence to a nouveau riche buyer in china looking for something to hang on the wall of a den.

What made this country great is far more than simple economic opportunity. In the early days of our nation the economic process was most certainly not free. The concentration of financial power in population centers was certainly detrimental to the vast majority of the citizens who at that time lived overwhelmingly in the rural areas. This is exemplified in the era of Jacksonian democracy and the later silver debates. The development of a broadly middle class society across most of our nation is the happy result of numerous factors beyond economics. If economics were the only factor to consider in our nations greatness, then we would be no better than other once great nations in old europe, etc.

 

[mc5aw]

The flip side of the coin is the contingent of marketplace know-it-alls who are all too eager to inform a given seller that his item is overpriced and will never sell. This hyper-aggressive horse hockey is what I deal with constantly on e bay in selling music memorabilia. The latest cretin decided to "edumacate" me on the folly of offering a 40-year-old RIAA gold record award at a price he thought ridiculous. He proceeded to question its authenticity, the value, and assured me it would never sell for more than $500 (though I purchased it two decades ago in a Sothebys auction for twice that). He also went to great length to school me on what an expert he is in such items, going as far as to claim Sothebys contacts him for advice. I was courteous in my response to this individual, but upon receiving a second message with an equally confrontational tone, I informed him that if he emailed me again I would file a harassment complaint against him. Problem solved ... haven't heard back from the idiot.

Watch as the folks who paid up for ARs during the recent panic try to get out from under their investments. The fellow who willingly paid $2500 for my $1000 M4 thinks the rifle is worth what he paid. Only if someone else believes it to be so. I am yet to meet that someone.