Ammo Ballistics/Chronograph Stats?

[Reggie TisFree]

That IMI +P stuff is essentially Winchester Black Talons.

Hmm...I'd be interested to read or hear more about that potential relationship.
They do favor...
Got any sources I can research?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Nevada Ed,

Brother, you have a fine grasp for the obvious. lol
I am aware of all the mitigating factors affecting the performance results of ammo & firearms.
I was posting an update to display that I had @ least found SOME point of reference from my original post.

I go to Youtube and look up shooting data by shooters on ammo that I need info on.
"Shooting the Bull"... a guy from Tn and also if you can find this young man,
"Buffman..." there will be data from 3 to 16" 9mm weapons, that shows load weight, powder load, bullet & chrony info.

 

[Rock185]

I don't have a YouTube channel, but have always been ballistically curious and have been chronographing ammo for about 40 years now. I agree that different guns, even by the same manufacturer, with same barrel length produce different results.

Reggie, I have chronographed 9mm +P Gold Dot, but don't recall testing the standard pressure 124 grain version. Coincidentally, a few days ago, I chronographed some of the IMI 124 JHP "Black Dot" in a few different guns. Listed as 1180 FPS in a 4" barrel, my results were, as expected, a bit different.

The IMI Black Dot JHP averaged 1139 FPS in a 3 1/2" semi-auto, 1179 FPS in a 4.7" semi-auto, 1186 FPS in a 3" revolver, and 1278 FPS in a 16" carbine. Other's results will obviously vary, but these were just a few real world, non factory test barrel, results. I neglected to take a 4" semi-auto to the range, but past experience indicates that my 4" semi-auto produces velocities not significantly different than the 3 1/2" gun. Often as not in fact, the 3 1/2" gun produces velocities a few FPS more than my particular 4" pistol.

 

[Reggie TisFree]

Great Info!

Hey Rock85,

I appreciate this detailed info. I knew that with the same ammo it will perform differently when fired from different guns/barrel lengths. Yet, I enjoyed hearing your results. from those various barrel lengths.

Not bad results from IMI "Black Dots". My S&W Shield does exceptional with everything I've thrown at it. My CANIK TP9SF is about 4.5 inches also.
So this allows me to have some ballpark ideas for my personal use.

What I have noticed is that a lot of manufacturers' Chronographed results on their box/labels often VARY from some of the ammo websites that retail them. Another batch of guys will list NOTHING performance-wise, only that it's 9mm & JHP/FMJ! LOL

Last, but not least I did get in some 9mm 124 GDHP SAA from SurplusAmmo.Com. It is a Speer Gold Dot bullet and is close to my Gold Dots 124gr +P and the headstamps online of 124 gr non+P when compared.

Here is a pic.

Thanks again,

Reg

 

[SMSgt]

After 40+ years of reloading, I finally broke down and bought a chronograph. Now I find myself chasing numbers instead of accuracy. At my age where day by day the groups grow larger--even if only a fraction of MOA--I'm considering ditching the chrono and going back to group size and disregarding the rest.

 

[Reggie TisFree]

I hear ya...and that is a valid point.
Guess what?
Found the ever-elusive and highly fabled Federal HST 147+P JHP's online---BOUGHT the last 50rd box!!!

 

[rockquarry]

After 40+ years of reloading, I finally broke down and bought a chronograph. Now I find myself chasing numbers instead of accuracy. At my age where day by day the groups grow larger--even if only a fraction of MOA--I'm considering ditching the chrono and going back to group size and disregarding the rest.

A chronograph remains a useful tool but has little to do with accuracy. I'll assume by "chasing numbers" you're referring to Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation. These numbers (unless they are incredibly dissimilar to the point accuracy is horrible) are not worth much in predicting accuracy, unless you're shooting at extreme ranges.

Getting low ES and SD numbers has become an Internet/ YouTube fad these days, but few seem to understand that low numbers indicate consistency only, not accuracy. Far too many other factors also affect accuracy and often to a greater degree. Low numbers hurt nothing, but work on accuracy by load development and group shooting. If you don't even look at the ES and SD numbers, you might be better off.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

IMHO, a 5% variation (i.e., + or - 50 fps around 1K) in velocity between one (factory) handgun bullet and another is both to be expected and, in most cases, irrelevant as far as practical performance is concerned: at the range it can be measured, either with a chrony or on the target(?), and in an offensive/defensive context the ultimate effect is probably going to be the same... This anticipates sufficient velocity to expand, BTW.

If one can reload and meet or exceed factory numbers and consistency, so much the better.

Nothing wrong with holding manufacturers to higher standards using the ol' power of the pocketbook either.

CHEERS!

P.S. One "LIKE" in 12 postings...? Huh?

 

[Nevada Ed]

After 40+ years of reloading, I finally broke down and bought a chronograph. Now I find myself chasing numbers instead of accuracy. At my age where day by day the groups grow larger--even if only a fraction of MOA--I'm considering ditching the chrono and going back to group size and disregarding the rest.

Did the just powder thing.............
then got a chrony.............

I don't know if I was happier before or after.............

Tight groups are nice but with so many powders and bullet weights......
it is a night mare !!

 

[DWalt]

Within rather narrow limits, the SD of the MV doesn't affect grouping performance greatly. (important side note - "Accuracy" means something entirely different from group size). There are various factors which affect grouping performance that are unrelated to the SD of the MV. Among those are gun characteristics such as barrel bedding, headspace, chamber dimensions, condition of the bore, trigger pull, and rifling twist; and ammunition characteristics, such as bullet weight, bullet concentricity, bullet shape, jump distance of the bullet into rifling, propellant type, propellant charge, and primer used. Then there are range conditions, such as air temperature, wind speed, wind direction, and mirage. I remember reading an article on bench rest shooting once which indicated that two very important (but largely ignored) factors for getting the smallest group are uniformity of case length and finding the optimum cartridge overall length for a specific bullet (which of course is indicitive of the bullet jump distance of your gun). Most bench rest shooters are very aware of those two items and take care to give them their proper attention. Obviously, such factors are of different magnitudes for rifles vs. handguns.