Ammo rotation

[petepeterson]

Just curious- How old do you let your carry ammo get before you replace it?

I had my first squib ever yesterday, lodging a .38 Gold Dot in my 442. I was using up some older ammo that I keep in a separate box. If I remember correctly, those five Gold Dots Might have gotten wet at some point. Still, it was an eye opener! The first round didn't ignite at all, even with a good primer hit, the 2nd squibbed. The other 3 went off (after I removed the slug), but it seemed like there was a bit of a delay (Maybe just me being paranoid.)

I tested the revolver out afterward with some target ammo. All good.

So I'm wondering, what is your timeframe? Every year? Every other?

 

[TX-Dennis]

I shoot off my carry rounds once a year. I've never had one that didn't function properly.

I once left a gun in my vehicle which has a storage compartment under the front passenger seat. Ice chest on the rear seat leaked, and the compartment filled with water. I forgot about the gun being there for a couple of days. When I found it the gun was sitting submerged. After drying, cleaning, and oiling the gun I took it to the range and fired the ammo off. Every round fired properly even though it had been submerged for two days. That was during an ammo shortage, and the only carry ammo I was able to find locally was MagTech Guardian Gold. I've never shot any other carry ammo that has been submerged, so who knows what would happen. I have fired a couple of FMJ rounds that went through the washing machine - same results.

 

[white cloud]

I think once a year is a good schedule unless the ammo gets sprayed with something like WD-40 or gets soaked.

I try to purchase carry ammo with sealed primers. This is not always possible with the loads I want to use. I may be wrong but it does not appear to me that BuffaloBore seals primers. I think that for what their ammo costs per round they could do that.

 

[petepeterson]

I suppose I should add:

What's the max age of ammo you would carry? Not just what's been in the gun.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Keep it cool and dry............ it will last a long long time.

If ammo were to get wet..... it would immediately get marked and go into the range bag.... for testing ( over time)

I won't re-chamber a round in an auto... to avoid pushing the bullet back into the case...... as I've read it will increase the pressure.


I recently found some .38/357 reloads from the late 80s...... all preformed as expected. I tend to buy ammo when I find it cheap or just available; never had an issue with centerfire ammo. Actually still have some of my Dad's old duty ammo..... "Police Only" +P + .38s from ??????..... well he retired in 1977.......it still goes bang!


Just last week had a lot of Failure to fire on some Winchester 333 pack bulk ammo I got during the last shortage.... about 1 in 10 FTF in a CZ Kadet or a Ruger 10/22 with good strikes.

All that said; I use to shoot my carry ammo when I qualified (every 6 months) ........ these days a every year or so seem GTG !

 

[Gamecock]

I never rotate any. Ammo doesn't rot.

I suspect that your squib load was a squib load when you put it in the gun.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I suppose I should add:

What's the max age of ammo you would carry? Not just what's been in the gun.

Speer says 10 years if stored properly - dry, less than 100F.
Speer® Bullet Points: Ammunition Shelf Life - YouTube

Federal says the same.
Federal Premium Ammunition - FAQ

I don't go 10, but I also don't just burn it off after a year to replace it either. Works for me, but not trying to convince anyone to do what they do differently.

 

[Rpg]

This is a complete non issue for me.

In nearly 60 years of shooting, I’ve never had a squib or failure to fire that could even remotely be connected to the age of the ammo.

OP’s squib and ftf were not related to the age of the ammo: he’d have had the same results if he’d used that ammo the day it was manufactured.

I’ve killed deer with 30-40 Kraig ammo manufactured at the turn of the 20th century. My son killed his first deer with 270 ammo I’d handloaded when I was 14: 30 years before my son killed his first deer with it. I have a large stash of WW II era 45 acp ammo that I’ve carried and shot (without problem) periodically. All that ammo, some as much as 100 years old, works just fine.

I know that many departments routinely have LEOs use new ammo at some established interval, but that practice is much more related to tradition than empirical evidence that such a practice is desirable.

While I don’t endorse using ammo that is obviously damaged or that you know has been stored in a barrel of sea water for months, my experience is that if the ammo looks good it works just fine.

Folks who engage in a ritual of changing out ammo are either letting their OCD run wild or have too much time on their hands.

To answer OP’s questions: I don’t rotate carry ammo and I place no age limits on my carry ammo.

 

[Wise_A]

Guys still use WWII match .45 in Bullseye.

The problem isn't "how old". It's how long it's been carried around, in what environments, and in the case of autoloaders, how beaten-up the top round is.

 

[sigp220.45]

I once bought a bunch of factory ammo that had been stored in a barn in Idaho for ten years. It never got wet, but it did experience heat to well over 100 degrees and cold down to below zero. It all worked fine.

There used the be a requirement in the FBI to keep a 50 round box of handgun ammo in the glove compartment of your G-ride. Every inspection someone would check each car and initial the box. The same box would ride in one car for a few years, then get swapped into another car. Some boxes were covered in initials. When we finally disallowed .38 revolvers around 2000, I rounded up a bunch of these heavily-graffitied beat-to-hell boxes of 147 grain +P+ Hydra Shoks (and some 158 LSWCHP) and put them to good use. Despite being exposed to crazy temperature variations they all shot fine.

I don’t really rotate carry ammo.

 

[Muss Muggins]

When we finally disallowed .38 revolvers around 2000, I rounded up a bunch of these heavily-graffitied beat-to-hell boxes of 147 grain +P+ Hydra Shoks (and some 158 LSWCHP) and put them to good use. Despite being exposed to crazy temperature variations they all shot fine.

I don’t really rotate carry ammo.

I've got a bunch of that 147 grain that's easily as old, probably bought on the same BPA. Just shot 60 rounds last Monday, and they were all good as new. It was a little different feel going through a 442 than the 66-2 2.5" that I used to get paid to run it in . . .

 

[WR Moore]

As some folks have noted, storage conditions can make a difference. I'd hesitate to shoot (for self preservation) stuff that lived in some glove box for years/decades.

On the other hand, back in the 1960's I fired factory ammo loaded in the late 1890s (.30-40 Krag). All fired, a few case necks split. About the same time fired off a broken box of .45 loaded in 1917, worked fine. Storage conditions of the Krag ammo were hideous.

Carry loads are another matter. Once a year is probably good insurance. I'll admit to stretching that when certain ammo was hard/impossible to get. With semi's, if chambered 4-5 times, I'd put that in the practice box, especially if in .40. I'l admit to stretching that in other calibers with a straight line feed. A lot depends upon your carry conditions, both frequency and heat/moisture.

I've got a small stash of French .45 ball ammo loaded about 1950. I bought it for $1/100 back when. It's corrosive, accurate and probably the prettiest .45 ammo I've ever seen. I expect it'll work if I ever need it.

 

[H Richard]

I have handgun ammo I loaded in the 80's that still functions fine. But my carry ammo is usually only factory, stored in my gun room under ideal conditions.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I replace mine once a year. It works for me.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I generally aim to replace carry ammo every year, but I've gone as long as 2 years before replacing them. Ammo that's been stored well, I'd be ok with using it for defensive purposes up to 2 or 3 years, but I'd probably pull a few random rounds and shoot them. Better still, just buy a new box and reserve old ammo for range use.

Will 10+ year-old ammo work if needed? Probably. Personally, I'd try not to use ammo more than 2 or 3 years old if possible. Same reason I like to change mag springs every couple of years, or change my car's oil at recommended intervals even if I know it can go longer. Cheap insurance/peace-of-mind.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

6 months in the guns is my general rule. Then they get shot up and new ammo goes in.

To keep everything in perspective, I did an accuracy test about a year ago using a 1944 production Remington-Rand M1911A-1 pistol (73 years old at the time), shooting FC-63 ammo (Federal Cartridge, 1963 production GI ball ammo, 54 years old at the time). 21 rounds (3 magazines) fired at 25 feet, 1/2 scale B27 Silhouette target, possible score of 210-21X, my score was 205-5X. No malfunctions, no problems, just perfect performance.

Still have 5 full boxes of the FC-63 GI ball ammo, and I wouldn't hesitate to load it up for defensive use.

YMMV

 

[bearfoot]

i do shoot off carry EDC ammo maybe once a year. if i clean the weapon, clean the mag., have the length of the rds. written in a notebook, check the length of every rd. before i reload the mag. i know loading the 1st. rd. might move the bullet back into the brass. the most any of the bullets have moved back is a few .000's.over the years i've been takeing notes because of the info read on the forum. check them w/ micrometers for +/_ dimensions of the round.

 

[Watchdog]

Just curious- How old do you let your carry ammo get before you replace it?

I don't replace it. If it's a semi-auto, I might remove the ammo and restack it in the mag once in a while.

The revolvers I keep loaded in various locations in the house are usually in drawers or camouflaged under an open magazine or a towel or something. Never crosses my mind to swap out the ammo. Never.

 

[Warren Sear]

I have some magazines for my S&W Model 469 that I have kept fully loaded with Winchester Silvertips since about 1993. I would bet my life on them firing and functioning in my gun 100%.

What is this "rotation" of which is spoken?

 

[Buford57]

Because of tradition (habit) I shoot up whatever is in the magazine twice annually. It is more a matter of reminding myself how the gun performs with the "performance" ammo I keep for SD purposes than using up "stale" ammo.

We were required to shoot duty ammo on the range (18 rounds - the six in the revolver and 2 reloads from the belt) at qualification). OTOH, our guns and ammo were exposed to rain, snow, dust and oil (gotta be clean for inspection!) I don't ever recall having a round of factory duty ammo FTF.

Although I still have some 30-odd year old fed stuff lying around I don't see carrying the oldest ammo I own as a badge of honor. Now that Winchester has produced another run of .357 Silvertips I may just shoot up the last 12 I was saving from 1988.

 

[SRT]

To celebrate the 100 year anniversary of my Smith & Wesson and Colt Army 1917s, I fed each revolver one half moon-clip loaded with 1917 head stamped Frankford Arsenal .45 ACP.

My slow-fire trepidation was for naught, as each round of century old ammunition faithfully ignited.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, I'll be the odd man out. I change my carry ammo every time I practice with my carry gun. This is at least once a month to as often as every week. I do this because I use the ammo that's in the mags when I get to the range.

Ammo doesn't rot.

This is a misnomer and could be a dangerous practice. Black powder does expire. This is why I'll never use anyone's reloads but mine. Yes, I have seen guys that got mixed up and used the wrong powder.

Further, it's not the age that's the problem, but the handling. Water and oil can migrate past the crimp and contaminate the powder or primer. I've heard that oil from your fingers can do this from being handled a lot, but I'm having a hard time believing it. There's just not enough oil on your hands to be a problem.

Still, handling is a concern. Sweat from your body can be problematic. Oil in your gun can be problematic.

If it's a self-defense gun, changing the ammo through practice can only be a good thing.

 

[joeintexas]

I'm certainly not saying changing out ammo is a waste but I have shot ammo that was at least 50 years old and it fired just fine. Before my dad passed away he had some 300 H&H mag and 38 specials from the 50s tucked away in an old chest. Each one of them went bang. Now if ammo gets wet that's a different story. I imagine there are as many opinions on this as there are on open/concealed carry.

 

[federali]

Much Ado About Nothing

Ammo has an indefinite shelf life and I've used ammo from WWII with no ill effects. When this topic comes up, I mention cleaning out my father's Jeep Wagoneer following his passing where I discovered a 12-round leather belt loop carrier containing my hand loaded .30-06 ammo encased in verdigris and buried in the wheel well. He hadn't hunted in at least 14 years prior to his passing and that ammo endured all that time in alternating northeast winters and summers, not to mention his salt-water surf fishing, which he did nearly until his last breath.

I cleaned up the ammo and all fired without incident as though it was loaded yesterday. I'm inclined to think that ammo a mere year or two old might suffer from a factory defect rather than storage or carry issues.

 

[TomkinsSP]

...Black powder does expire...

THAT'S mighty old carry ammo you have there.

 

[WR Moore]

Whilst we're telling all these stories about old ammo without issue, I need to pass on one of another type from Charlie Petty. It seems there was an old coot who kept a box of .30-30 in his pickup for his truck gun for quite awhile. Well, after some time, he fired one and the rifle kinda disassembled itself.

When an independent lab broke down a couple remaining rounds (yes there was a lawsuit involved), it seems the long term vibration turned the powder into....well, flour or something similar. Burning rate was pretty much instantaneous. The ammo company was found without fault.

Moral of the story is apparently don't get cheap- it can be really expensive.

 

[RGVshooter]

Just curious- How old do you let your carry ammo get before you replace it?

I had my first squib ever yesterday, lodging a .38 Gold Dot in my 442. I was using up some older ammo that I keep in a separate box. If I remember correctly, those five Gold Dots Might have gotten wet at some point.

two things...

ONE... if I suspect any of my carry ammo is "bad" then into the range bucket it goes, not in a carry gun.

TWO.... a dud or "squib" could happen with any ammo, new or old...

which leads me to why I feel revolvers shine... In a self defense shooting, if you do get a dud, most people and I've seen experienced shooters do this at the range when they're not even under any stress is they have that knee jerk reaction of pulling the trigger again. Nothing happens. why? because with an autoloader you have clear the round by racking the slide. And that takes lots of practice and plenty of ongoing training.

With a revolver if you get a dud, just simply pulling the trigger again the cylinder will rotate to the next round..

Carry a revolver guys!

 

[Kurusu]

@ the OP.

Hopefully you train regurlaly with your carry pistol.

Whenever you do. Spend the rounds you have been carrying first.

Reload the piece with fresh rounds. Repeat at least once every two months.

You won't have any problems (unless you are really cheap on buying the ammo that may save your life) with the ammo, and as a bonus, if your life will ever depend on your abilty with a handgun, you may find that training useful.

 

[petepeterson]

two things...

ONE... if I suspect any of my carry ammo is "bad" then into the range bucket it goes, not in a carry gun.

TWO.... a dud or "squib" could happen with any ammo, new or old...

which leads me to why I feel revolvers shine... In a self defense shooting, if you do get a dud, most people and I've seen experienced shooters do this at the range when they're not even under any stress is they have that knee jerk reaction of pulling the trigger again. Nothing happens. why? because with an autoloader you have clear the round by racking the slide. And that takes lots of practice and plenty of ongoing training.

With a revolver if you get a dud, just simply pulling the trigger again the cylinder will rotate to the next round..

Carry a revolver guys!

I was using a revolver. First round was a dud, 2nd a squib. Revolver or auto, I was holding a light rock.

Fortunately, the rounds were out of the "range bucket." I'm guessing they got wet. They weren't very old though.

 

[Rastoff]

THAT'S mighty old carry ammo you have there.

Black powder is still made. People still make mistakes. Yes, I have seen at least one person use black powder when he should have used smokeless. But I said that before.