An open carry observation

[Smoke]

Since we've moved on to General Open carry as opposed to a school resource officer open carrying in possibly an inappropriate holster.

I don't open carry ever. Not even at The Goat Ranch.

So I went into Hooterville to arrange for mail delivery right after we moved in here. Before I got to the Hooterville post office I pulled over disarmed and locked my gun in a lockbox under the back seat.

I am entirely aware that even having the gun in my car on post office property was a crime but I hadn't seen the post office yet and I didn't know if it was in a shared parking lot. It wasn't but I figured the odds were in my favor.

Long story short, I walked into the post office and got in line right behind some guy standing in the lobby Open Carrying.
No one in the post office seemed to care.

I can't imagine ever needing to go back to that post office again but if I do I promise you I'm not going to walk in there with a gun. Everybody in Hooterville (all 790 of them) could open carry to the post office with no repercussions. If I walked in there with so much as a squirt gun I would get busted. Because I'm that guy.

 

[jurnes]

I agree with most posts stating that open carry is a bad idea.

Thieves will "roll" a person for a few buck or an item worth almost nothing. So along comes a guy with a gun worth $500, 600-1000+ in plain sight.

Nothing but trouble!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

First, stop me if I'm wrong, an LEO in uniform is supposed to open carry, yes?

Second, again, stop me if I'm wrong, but a 6906 is a "TDA", a typical double-action pistol. The "decocker" is supposed to be disengaged. The safety is the long, double-action trigger pull, at least that is how I've spent a zillion years thinking about it.

There is such a thing as a safety-decocker but, as I recall, that is not what the decocker is on &W 3rd Gen pistols.

I think a proper retention holster of some kind is a better idea for this LEO but I certainly cannot fault his open carry. That's his job. I never do it but, in the immortal words of the late, great comedian Freddie Prinz, "it's not my job, man!"

 

[Doug M.]

I have referred to this before. I was once sent to contact a citizen who was really upset about an open carrier in a grocery store. I knew the caller was going to be a whiny pain in the butt from his area code. He was not happy when we told him that there was not only no basis to contact the carrier, but that in fact that it would be unlawful (civilly AND criminally) to make contact. He promised to contact his legislator (who was likely one of the problem children we haven the legislature if this was his constituent) and seek to end open carry.

We simply cannot afford that kind of attention from the kooks. As noted, it is also unsafe in many circumstances. In addition, I want to be left alone. I don't like most people and I surely do not want to interact with them or have them seek LE action because of me. I have bordered on open carry a time or two (taking my wife to the Yakima airport) using a duty holster that did not conceal well at all solely because I wanted that pistol on me, but I was not getting out the car or otherwise likely to do anything that invited attention. It is vital to me to be "gray" - to fade into the background as much as possible.

 

[Doug M.]

First, stop me if I'm wrong, an LEO in uniform is supposed to open carry, yes?

Second, again, stop me if I'm wrong, but a 6906 is a "TDA", a typical double-action pistol. The "decocker" is supposed to be disengaged. The safety is the long, double-action trigger pull, at least that is how I've spent a zillion years thinking about it.

I think a proper retention holster of some kind is a better idea for this LEO but I certainly cannot fault his open carry. That's his job. I never do it but, in the immortal words of the late, great comedian Freddie Prinz, "it's not my job, man!"

The failure to use a proper security holster in such circumstances is well beyond stupid; it is a solid basis for discipline. It is also a basis for discipline (preferably termination of employment) for any supervisory or command officer to allow it. Period, full stop. The potential liability if the pistol is able to be removed from the SRO is staggering, and any cop lawyer worth any portion of his pay would have to take some very vigorous action (a full on R. Lee Ermey screaming fit). (We have case law on such here from a workplace safety issue after an officer was killed using an improper holster.)

 

[45Smashemflat]

I open carry in the woods and fields while hunting or scouting. That's about it. When I do that, I tend to avoid any need to "wander through town" on the way out or in. Otherwise, it's concealed for all the same reasons given above.

 

[Lt.Donn]

Friends don't let friends OC

 

[KWW]

The failure to use a proper security holster in such circumstances is well beyond stupid; it is a solid basis for discipline. It is also a basis for discipline (preferably termination of employment) for any supervisory or command officer to allow it. Period, full stop. The potential liability if the pistol is able to be removed from the SRO is staggering, and any cop lawyer worth any portion of his pay would have to take some very vigorous action (a full on R. Lee Ermey screaming fit). (We have case law on such here from a workplace safety issue after an officer was killed using an improper holster.)

Discipline of the officer or his supervisor would depend on their department's policy. If the department allowed that type of holster, the liability is on the department. And no, I know of no department that allows uniformed carry with no retention requirements.

 

[Smoke]

Second, again, stop me if I'm wrong, but a 6906 is a "TDA", a typical double-action pistol. The "decocker" is supposed to be disengaged. The safety is the long, double-action trigger pull, at least that is how I've spent a zillion years thinking about it.

I may have read it wrong but based on what I read in the OP I was under the impression that the guy was walking around with the 6906 cocked and unlocked.

 

[lrrifleman]

This particular 6906 was carried hammer down, decocker parallel to the bore, so that the first shot HAD to be fired DA. What initially caught my eye was the action similarity to my 439.

 

[Muley Gil]

Discipline of the officer or his supervisor would depend on their department's policy. If the department allowed that type of holster, the liability is on the department. And no, I know of no department that allows uniformed carry with no retention requirements.

I retired from my PD in 2001. At that time, plain thumb break and the strap over the hammer retention holsters were still common. Some folks had higher level holsters, but it wasn't required.

 

[Smith391]

Can't speak to the holster but I carried a 5903 with the safety/decocker disengaged while on duty. Never felt it to be unsafe.

I did train to sweep the decoker as part of the draw in case the safety was bumped on.

Some kydex have light retention built in but I carried a Safariland 070 triple retention holster during this time.

I carried a Beretta 92F in this same condition as a rookie during the early 90's, coupled with a "Roger's SSIII Security Holster" (the forerunner of the Safariland 070 - which Safariland purchased the manufacturing rights to from Bill Rogers). https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/safariland-bill-rogers/



A great combination, in its day, & I also felt very secure carrying in this manner.

 

[Thirsty Traveler]

I have long said that open carry is a bad idea in every direction. I've been chastised online for this view and even been kicked off a certain plastic pistol forum for my views. Sorry, still not sorry. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Among numerous other reasons, it makes you a prime target for disarm attempts. If bad guys train to disarm cops (and they do) what do you think they're going to do to a civilian if they think they need to?

I agree, however, if you are hunting or walking in the woods with a lot of predators present it's a good idea! Having said that, I love our freedom and our constitution, so if it's on the books in a state, "to each his own"! If would bother me more if this right was taken away!

TT

 

[xxlseth]

I have long said that open carry is a bad idea in every direction. I've been chastised online for this view and even been kicked off a certain plastic pistol forum for my views. Sorry, still not sorry. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Among numerous other reasons, it makes you a prime target for disarm attempts. If bad guys train to disarm cops (and they do) what do you think they're going to do to a civilian if they think they need to?

I agree with you big time, however…
I believe open carry is an important right and an important part of the 2A. That doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. Head on a swivel and conditional awareness notwithstanding, you can't see everything, and open carry is an invitation to a 2 x 4 across the back of the head…IMHO.

 

[GUNSAFETY4U]

In Florida, it's simple... We will all have to pay Personal Income Tax if open carry is ever adopted. It decays tourism, which is why we don't pay income tax. Tourists don't want to see non-LEOS carrying a hog-leg while their kids worship the Imaginary Rodent. The Leg always brings it up, and it always gets voted down. Solid planning.

 

[Rainh2o]

There are times that it is sensible, hiking in the woods for instance with a backpack. I can conceal carry but my back pack makes it a little more difficult to draw from conceal. I use a good retention holster when I do. When approaching trespassers on the back 40, I open carry as well, it commands more authority to those who decide my property lines shouldn't be respected and seems to keep the arguments down from them. If you expect to run across any Karen's that are going to harass you while you are doing something perfectly legal, that's another time I have open carried, keeps them away. Don't get me wrong, I conceal carry 99% of the time due to what you're points are about disarming scenarios and having the surprise on a bad guy, but I do feel there are times where it's more advantageous to open carry, very few but there are times.

 

[RestingBear]

As a state trooper, I obviously open carried in uniform everyday for 31 years. Thats different - people expect to see police officers with a gun on their hip. Now that I'm retired, I subscribe to the "Grey Man" approach in going about my day-to-day activities. I just want to blend in in a crowd. Open carry, in my opinion, doesn't lend itself to that goal. To me, it's not a debate about whether or not my holster choice has proper retention, etc. It's about making myself a primary target to any thug that has plans to create havoc. I'm older now, and I want to be seen as harmless to most so I have a decent chance to show them that I'm not when it hits the fan!

 

[Tabby Lynn]

I have long said that open carry is a bad idea in every direction. I've been chastised online for this view and even been kicked off a certain plastic pistol forum for my views. Sorry, still not sorry. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Among numerous other reasons, it makes you a prime target for disarm attempts. If bad guys train to disarm cops (and they do) what do you think they're going to do to a civilian if they think they need to?

Open carry these days is an invitation for either grief, or disaster unless you are out in the woods of fields and hunting. When I was growing up I could walk down the road with my shotgun over my shoulder and people would say, Oh! Teri Anne's going hunting again. It was and somewhat normal as well as expected thing. If someone tried that these days in most places there would be a lot of panic calls to 911 reporting that there is someone with a gun with a response of several police cars showing up and officers greeting you with pistols drawn. The response might even be the same if the shotgun was in a case. Back then it was normal and accepted that people carrying a firearm out in the open were doing if for whatever reason. Criminals on the other hand hid their firearms because they didn't want you to know that they were out doing their criminal things. Times have changed. If you want a big confrontation open carry a firearm in other than a legal hunting or range situation and you will be visited by any number of nervous police officers. Legally carry concealed and nobody, including the criminals you need to protect yourself from know you are carrying a firearm. Criminals are cowards, they won't go where there is a possibility of getting shot. They love no gun zones and areas thinking that they are the only ones with a gun and thus emboldened in carrying on their nefarious illegal activities. When confronted they will run. If one of their group gets shot they will more often than not run. Unlike the military who, leave no man/woman behind, most, but not all will run like scared bunny rabbits.

There is also the outside chance that a criminal will try to take you weapon away from you, and if done correctly will succeed. The holsters most civilians use are not designed to prevent the firearm from being removed, by anyone or in some cases even falling out. Civilians seldom if ever have Level 2 or 3 holsters that will make taking the firearm difficult if not impossible.

Open carry of firearms is simply asking for trouble these days.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

On the overall, I'm not a fan of open carry. For the same reasons already stated in the last two pages. In Alaska it's a trend that seems to actually be dying down. For awhile it seemed dirty jeans, old concert shirts, and inexpensive polymer, striker fired pistols carried in Uncle Mike's nylon holsters were some kinda hot, cringe fashion trend. I still see some variance of that a couple times a year, but not as often for some reason.

And, sometimes in the Summer open carry makes perfect sense, because a third of the people here are enroute to their favorite fishing hole or hiking trail. I get not leaving a gun in the car to run into the store for a snack, a drink, and a bag of ice while enroute to bear country.

There is actually a gas station in Girdwood Alaska that's practically a living meme during the Summer months. this gas station is kind of the last good stop for gas, grub, and bathrooms for a couple hours. It gets crazy busy, with folks heading down to the Kenai peninsula. Not uncommon to see 15-20 people standing in lines that stretch all the way to the back of the store. About 3/4 of them are open carrying. Massive revolvers, 10mm, at fair share of 9mm fodder, you see it all. During those Summer months, I'm pretty sure that's the least likely gas station to get robbed in America, and ya' know? Everyone is pretty polite there too! (Or at least until they get out to the parking lot and try to maneuver their trucks, boats, travel trailers, etc. Thru the over crowded parking lot)

The place seems ripe fodder for some guntuber to do some kinda "Whatcha carryin'?" Street interviews, but I've never seen it, and I ain't that guy. Again, I'm not a fan of open carry, but exceptions exist, and that's my favorite.

 

[Xfuzz]

Was a large city copper 30 years...promoted to soft threads (Det) in 1983.
Was surprised how many of the older Dets seldom used any type of holster...
"Mexican Carry" ... many of these guys were WWII and Korean war vets.
Best guess is close to 70% packed Colts 1911's.