An open carry observation

[rockquarry]

There ya go!! Good judgement since one never knows what any situation will bring. Practice all you want on the range, in real life the situation will most likely never be the same as anything you practiced. Practice at 50 feet or 25 yards. If you can hit your target accurately at that range 5, 7, 10 or 20 is a piece of cake. Unfortunately, most of the handguns you carry are not all that accurate at those ranges.

I seldom carry a handgun these days, but shoot two or three days a week. I have never had use for any handgun that wasn't accurate at 25 yds. That's the distance where I do about 90% of my target shooting, something I really enjoy, bullseye style. I'm not preparing for the big gunfight.

 

[Tabby Lynn]

I seldom carry a handgun these days, but shoot two or three days a week. I have never had use for any handgun that wasn't accurate at 25 yds. That's the distance where I do about 90% of my target shooting, something I really enjoy, bullseye style. I'm not preparing for the big gunfight.

lf you can consistently hit the target at 25 yards, 10 feet is a given. The difference between target shooting and self defense/combat is adrenalin and nerves. There is a big difference in shooting at a target and shooting as someone intent on killing you.

 

[rockquarry]

lf you can consistently hit the target at 25 yards, 10 feet is a given. The difference between target shooting and self defense/combat is adrenalin and nerves. There is a big difference in shooting at a target and shooting as someone intent on killing you.

As I said, I'm not preparing for the big gunfight, but am always trying to improve my skill.

 

[RHPVideo]

That's a different animal altogether. I've done that numerous times. I'm talking about being back in the world, where the guy who stands in front of you in store checkout is wearing a 1911 in a canted shoulder holster in light just right for you to see a chambered round pointed at your head. Happened to me.

To assume that you are at an advantage by conceal carrying, is to assume that you aren't the intended target. Once they have the drop on you, it's already too late. To open carry is more likely going to deter criminality as it would be stupid to take a chance anyway with someone knowingly armed in the area. That would Most likely send the criminal elsewhere to do his dirty deed. At least the chances would be greater to deter, rather than be the intendded target.

 

[biku324]

You assume that an adversary is making rational decisions. Good luck.

 

[rockquarry]

You assume that an adversary is making rational decisions. Good luck.

Within the realm of Internet dream gunfighting, the bad guy's rational decisions are also predictable decisions.

 

[qwed]

Open carry is a tactical risk but a societal good. Mostly I carry concealed. Doesn't draw attention .Doesn't make me the obvious first target of a determined bad actor. However, I am pleased to see others open carrying and occasionally do so myself. Open carry dissuades bad behavior( "Don't pick a stupid fight....that guy had a gun." "Don't try to rob this place right now, those 2 guys over there are carrying." Etc.) Open carry also helps normalize the public presence of firearms. Our society got so childish and irresponsible partly because the presence of true first responders everywhere you might turn stopped being visibly obvious.

I live in Utah where you can concealed carry without permit (I still have a permit due to reciprocity) & open carry any time, but try doing open carry with an AR & a 2 point sling.....I think you will draw undue attention. Point being, why draw attention to yourself?

 

[Brian Parrish]

To assume that you are at an advantage by conceal carrying, is to assume that you aren't the intended target. Once they have the drop on you, it's already too late. To open carry is more likely going to deter criminality as it would be stupid to take a chance anyway with someone knowingly armed in the area. That would Most likely send the criminal elsewhere to do his dirty deed. At least the chances would be greater to deter, rather than be the intended target.

I have studied all the principles which come up in our open carry "debates" (for lack of an accurate characterization,) for years now. I call this one the deterrence argument. I think it is a valid consideration, but you should understand we take it on faith.

1) Anecdote- If people tell a story where it didn't go well they consider the argument falsified.
2) Survivorship Bias- Nobody is keeping track of successful deterrence incidents. We know it really happens but only from a few anecdotes related by criminals who admitted that they avoided someone who was carrying. You cannot count incidents that never happened and were never reported.
3) Complexity- All social interactions are complex including this kind of deterrence. It is an over-simplification to say the visible gun alone is the factor in deterrence, just as it is equally invalid to say that the presence of the gun alone makes you a target.
4) Motivation- We accept an argument for reasons which may not be clear to us. Confirmation bias has become a buzzword now, but it is good if you assume you are susceptible to it and take care. If you are not convincing anyone with an argument which you consider to be decisive, it is good to figure out why.

My purpose here is to have my ideas tested and challenged. Writing on the forum for me is a great way to learn. I have no need to justify myself to anyone here, though I don't mind anyone who does. BTW, I believe that if I ever go on trial, everything I have written here will be read out and used against me in court.

Correction and contradiction is heartily welcome! My friend Rockquarry has told me I am wordy and pedantic. This is true. I am grateful if you bear with me as I impose upon your patience.

Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[Smoke]

I open carry every weekend here in Florida...That's because I work armed security as a side gig and open carry is required by law for armed security officers per Florida code...There are some exceptions for concealed such as PI's or PI interns, executive protection, etc.

Is there a point you're trying to make here?

 

[biku324]

I have studied all the principles which come up in our open carry "debates" (for lack of an accurate characterization,) for years now. I call this one the deterrence argument. I think it is a valid consideration, but you should understand we take it on faith.

1) Anecdote- If people tell a story where it didn't go well they consider the argument falsified.
2) Survivorship Bias- Nobody is keeping track of successful deterrence incidents. We know it really happens but only from a few anecdotes related by criminals who admitted that they avoided someone who was carrying. You cannot count incidents that never happened and were never reported.
3) Complexity- All social interactions are complex including this kind of deterrence. It is an over-simplification to say the visible gun alone is the factor in deterrence, just as it is equally invalid to say that the presence of the gun alone makes you a target.
4) Motivation- We accept an argument for reasons which may not be clear to us. Confirmation bias has become a buzzword now, but it is good if you assume you are susceptible to it and take care. If you are not convincing anyone with an argument which you consider to be decisive, it is good to figure out why.

My purpose here is to have my ideas tested and challenged. Writing on the forum for me is a great way to learn. I have no need to justify myself to anyone here, though I don't mind anyone who does. BTW, I believe that if I ever go on trial, everything I have written here will be read out and used against me in court.

Correction and contradiction is heartily welcome! My friend Rockquarry has told me I am wordy and pedantic. This is true. I am grateful if you bear with me as I impose upon your patience.

Kind Regards,
BrianD

You're too prolix - ex-PFC Wintergreen knows.

 

[Smoke]

PSA
Your Hawaiin shirts dont fool anyone either.

But they look so damn stylish.

 

[rockquarry]

View attachment 794044
But they look so damn stylish.

Hard to imagine wearing something like that in public.

 

[Smoke]

I notice people open carrying out in public. I also notice people walking around the VA with empty holsters (which, in my opinion is dumber than open carrying).

I was at Walmart with my wife one day When some old man walked right by her open carrying a revolver. She was in one of those electric scooters that they have at Walmart, so she was eye level to the guy's gun and still didn't notice it.

Some people just aren't looking for it and they're just not paying attention.

I was in Walmart with my wife one day, I think we actually went to get new phones. It wasn't a holiday that I was aware of it wasn't Black Friday or anything like that but that particular Walmart was jam-packed with people (as opposed to Sleestacks?) that day.

I noticed four or five people open carrying in stupid ways that day.

I ended up right next to some woman in yoga pants and she was not the type of woman that looks good in yoga pants with an LC9 stuck in the cell phone pocket of her yoga pants. I mean I was literally 6 in away from that gun. I might even hit it with the back of my hand and she didn't notice. I remember looking up and I'm fairly certain the guy was her husband but he was about 20 ft away and he was just giving me the Death Stare. Maybe he was doing OverWatch for his stupid wife I don't know.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, I choose not to open carry. You do you boo.

 

[unspellable]

I open carry out in the woods. In town I pocket carry. I'm paranoid about flashing so probably go a bit too far in the deep concealment direction..

 

[bph9]

This. Plus it's kind of like wearing a sign saying "Shoot Me First". 5 decades ago I was a professional firefighter in a small midwestern town. It was a quiet and peaceful place, But none of us wore uniform off duty-the thinking being that if you walk into the local stop n rob in uniform when something's going down the thug would likely shoot the uniform before he read the badge. Feel the same about open carry in public places

I totally agree with you. Open carry is not only pure stupidity which puts a big bullseye on your back but it's an insecure person deliberately trying to intimidate and threaten others. It actually gives all gun owners a bad name as being bullies out to swagger around intimidating and threatening everyone including the police when they tell them to do something.

Remember the majority of the public do not own firearms and they feel extremely threatened by people who are carrying openly and so do many people who own firearms. Women with children feel especially threatened and their children sense this immediately. When this happens now we have the younger generation fearing firearms before they are even adults.

I once saw a person carrying a pistol in a shoulder holster (pistol upside down) while out shopping and the pistol fell out of his holster and hit the concrete floor. If it had gone off I or people next to me could have been shot and killed. If the pistol had been concealed there would have been at least some chance the fellow would have felt the gun start to slip and slide out of the holster and it may have even got tangled up in his cloths when it let loose and fell from the holster.

I have many friends at our shooting club and few carry weapons concealed or not concealed. One fellow member told me, "I do not carry because I have a hot temper and I fear I may do something I would be sorry for if I carry a gun".

Each to his own but when I carry a gun it is always concealed. I myself feel very uncomfortable when I see a person with open carry especially if he is swaggering loudmouth bullying people while carrying openly. I have seen this happen way too often, especially if the loud mouth sees someone even give a quick glance at his wife, then he immediately threatens them. He is actually wearing a big insecurity badge stamped on his forehead and shouting to the world his relationship with his wife is fragile at best. Of course all this is way over his head as he is "Walter Mitty" personified in real life.

"To hell with the handkerchief," said Walter Mitty scornfully. He took one last drag on his cigarette and snapped it away. Then, with that faint, fleeting smile playing about his lips, he faced the firing squad; erect and motionless, proud and disdainful, Walter Mitty the Undefeated, inscrutable to the last.

 

[rockquarry]

I
notice people open carrying out in public. I also notice people walking around the VA with empty holsters (which, in my opinion is dumber than open carrying).

I was at Walmart with my wife one day When some old man walked right by her open carrying a revolver. She was in one of those electric scooters that they have at Walmart, so she was eye level to the guy's gun and still didn't notice it.

Some people just aren't looking for it and they're just not paying attention.

I was in Walmart with my wife one day, I think we actually went to get new phones. It wasn't a holiday that I was aware of it wasn't Black Friday or anything like that but that particular Walmart was jam-packed with people (as opposed to Sleestacks?) that day.

I noticed four or five people open carrying in stupid ways that day.

I ended up right next to some woman in yoga pants and she was not the type of woman that looks good in yoga pants with an LC9 stuck in the cell phone pocket of her yoga pants. I mean I was literally 6 in away from that gun. I might even hit it with the back of my hand and she didn't notice. I remember looking up and I'm fairly certain the guy was her husband but he was about 20 ft away and he was just giving me the Death Stare. Maybe he was doing OverWatch for his stupid wife I don't know.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, I choose not to open carry. You do you boo.

Open carriers need the attention. Rational decision making may not be a strong point with these folks. I'd certainly avoid them.

 

[Tabby Lynn]

I
notice people open carrying out in public. I also notice people walking around the VA with empty holsters (which, in my opinion is dumber than open carrying).

I was at Walmart with my wife one day When some old man walked right by her open carrying a revolver. She was in one of those electric scooters that they have at Walmart, so she was eye level to the guy's gun and still didn't notice it.

Some people just aren't looking for it and they're just not paying attention.

I was in Walmart with my wife one day, I think we actually went to get new phones. It wasn't a holiday that I was aware of it wasn't Black Friday or anything like that but that particular Walmart was jam-packed with people (as opposed to Sleestacks?) that day.

I noticed four or five people open carrying in stupid ways that day.

I ended up right next to some woman in yoga pants and she was not the type of woman that looks good in yoga pants with an LC9 stuck in the cell phone pocket of her yoga pants. I mean I was literally 6 in away from that gun. I might even hit it with the back of my hand and she didn't notice. I remember looking up and I'm fairly certain the guy was her husband but he was about 20 ft away and he was just giving me the Death Stare. Maybe he was doing OverWatch for his stupid wife I don't know.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, I choose not to open carry. You do you boo.

It's Colorado, so who knows? However the empty holsters at the VA are due to not being allowed to carry weapons in a VA hospital. Not dumb, just law abiding. There is a big difference.

 

[Smoke]

Hard to imagine wearing something like that in public.

They don't appeal to you. They do appeal to me.

That said, I actually never do wear them in public. Because it's been my experience when I show up some place wearing an Aloha I'm usually the only person wearing one and that makes me stand out from the crowd. Same reason I never wear shorts in public.

The only place that I wear Alohas is it family barbecues at The Goat Ranch and it doesn't matter there because it's only family and they all know I'm carrying a gun anyway.

To make a long story longer I'm going to tell this story again.

I used to wear Alohas all the time. One morning I got into it with some crackhead in the parking lot in the apartments I used to live in. Apparently she was friends with somebody that lived in those apartments. She told him about the altercation and the description she gave was "The fat guy in the Hawaiian shirt".

I had a neighbor named Cliff who was all but an invalid. He was a fat guy, he wore Hawaiian shirts all the time (like me he got sick and dropped about 85 lb the last time I saw him he probably weighed 180 lb if that).

Blah blah blah, apparently the friend of the crackhead went out one day and picked up a whole bag of dog s*** on the grounds and poured it all over Cliff's car.

That was the last time I ever wore a Aloha in public because it makes me stand out in a crowd.

 

[biku324]

Hard to imagine wearing something like that in public.

You're going to offend East Coast police retirees!

 

[Smoke]

It's Colorado, so who knows? However the empty holsters at the VA are due to not being allowed to carry weapons in a VA hospital. Not dumb, just law abiding. There is a big difference.

Okay A little clarification is needed here. The particular VA that I'm talking about is the Floyd K. Lindstrom from Clinic on Centennial in Colorado Springs.

FLK is a standalone building about a half a mile away from anything else. If you're walking around that clinic with an empty holster on your hip the chances are better than excellent that there's a gun in your car. That's also a crime. Every entrance to the parking lot is posted. There's no way that you can enter the grounds without going past one of those signs.

It's poking the bear. All it's going to take is the wrong VA cop on the wrong day to ruin somebody's life.

One of the providers that I used to see frequently knew that I was working as a security guard. Every time I walked into that clinic he would hint that I must be carrying a gun. Every time he did I quoted the law to him and said that there was no way that I would ever jeopardize my VA privileges or my freedom by doing something that stupid