Another 1917 -- Pics and questions

[Recoil1776]

Greetings everyone,

I'm a long time shooter, having played mostly with rifles and semi-autos, but I've never been into revolvers other than having a few single action cowboy guns. However, that recently changed when I purchased a S&W M1917. I gotta tell you, I think I'm hooked. I want more already!

Here's a few pics:

Serial number 49XXX. I'd be happy to be added to the database I've read about here if someone wants to let me know how to go about that.

Lock up is nice and tight with very little wobble, and no end shake. I'm no bluing expert, but I suspect it's been reblued at some point, although it would have been many decades ago given the wear and rust spots. Then again, the lettering is nice and sharp, so if it's been reblued, whoever did it did a nice job.

All in all, it's a fine weapon. I'm tickled pink to have it, and like I said, I think I'm hooked on revolvers now.

A couple questions:

1) The striker on the hammer (not sure what the appropriate term is) is a little loose. It appears to simply be roll pinned in the hammer and it pivots slightly around the pin, though not enough to prevent function. Is this normal?

2) Can a 1917 be safely dry fired? I'd be a liar if I said I haven't done it a couple times already, but I'm hesitant to do so, especially until I know if the hammer striker needs repair. I like practicing with my guns, so I hope I can.

3) All the serial numbers match except for the one on the cylinder...BUT, it's off by exactly +1. Is it possible that someone fouled up at the factory back in 1918 and mixed two cylinders up? It seems to me that if the numbers didn't match, they'd be off by thousands or tens of thousands, and not by a single digit.

4) Where can I get more for cheap?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it.

 

[Recoil1776]

Greetings everyone,

I'm a long time shooter, having played mostly with rifles and semi-autos, but I've never been into revolvers other than having a few single action cowboy guns. However, that recently changed when I purchased a S&W M1917. I gotta tell you, I think I'm hooked. I want more already!

Here's a few pics:

Serial number 49XXX. I'd be happy to be added to the database I've read about here if someone wants to let me know how to go about that.

Lock up is nice and tight with very little wobble, and no end shake. I'm no bluing expert, but I suspect it's been reblued at some point, although it would have been many decades ago given the wear and rust spots. Then again, the lettering is nice and sharp, so if it's been reblued, whoever did it did a nice job.

All in all, it's a fine weapon. I'm tickled pink to have it, and like I said, I think I'm hooked on revolvers now.

A couple questions:

1) The striker on the hammer (not sure what the appropriate term is) is a little loose. It appears to simply be roll pinned in the hammer and it pivots slightly around the pin, though not enough to prevent function. Is this normal?

2) Can a 1917 be safely dry fired? I'd be a liar if I said I haven't done it a couple times already, but I'm hesitant to do so, especially until I know if the hammer striker needs repair. I like practicing with my guns, so I hope I can.

3) All the serial numbers match except for the one on the cylinder...BUT, it's off by exactly +1. Is it possible that someone fouled up at the factory back in 1918 and mixed two cylinders up? It seems to me that if the numbers didn't match, they'd be off by thousands or tens of thousands, and not by a single digit.

4) Where can I get more for cheap?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

The movement of the firing pin is normal. You can buy snap caps in .45 ACP. Remember, you are dealing with a gun that is about 90 years old.

Yes, it is possible that it was misstamped off by one digit.

 

[Jack Flash]

Recoil1776 -- Welcome to the Forum. You picked a great revolver for your first one!

My stab at answering your questions:
1) That is called the "Firing Pin". As Muley Gil said, the movement you describe is normal.
2) I always use snap caps. They are fairly inexpensive.
3) My guess is that they swapped two cylinders at the factory, but who knows, maybe someone in the Army was working on a group of them and got careless(?)
4) The prices on these have taken off in the last few years. Good luck finding a decent one cheap!

 

[firestrat]

Welcome! Would like to get one of those one day. Thanks for the pics!

 

[Recoil1776]

Thanks for the information and quick responses.

And I shoulda known it was called a firing pin, just like every other gun...Duh, haha.

Should I be concerned with the firing pin wobble at a certain point? It appears that it it almost touches the frame. If it gets any looser, I'll end up dropping the pin right on the top strap. If they're all like that I'll just forget about it. But if that's too much play, then I'll need to figure out how to replace it.

Thanks again Folks, I appreciate your time.

 

[handejector]

And I shoulda known it was called a firing pin, just like every other gun...Duh, haha.

That is what it SHOULD be called, but good ol' S&W actually calls it the "Hammer Nose".

Don't worry about it till it falls out.

Welcome aboard. They are fun old guns to shoot. You are correct about it being reblued.

 

[mulehide9]

Hey recoil...Nice revolver. If you are wanting to shoot it, you might want to load your own.
You can purchase .45 Auto Rim brass cases, and eliminate those dumb "MOON CLIPS". If you don't reload, go for it. It is not expensive, and will save you a ton of money on shooting.

Visit our reloading thread for answers to any questions you might have.

 

[Recoil1776]

Originally posted by handejector:
Don't worry about it till it falls out.

Right. Thanks.

Originally posted by mulehide9:
If you are wanting to shoot it, you might want to load your own.
You can purchase .45 Auto Rim brass cases, and eliminate those dumb "MOON CLIPS". If you don't reload, go for it. It is not expensive, and will save you a ton of money on shooting.

Visit our reloading thread for answers to any questions you might have.

Yep, that's on the plate. I already reload, and reload .45 ACP, so the new case wont be any trouble. I just need to buy some brass.

And say, is it safe to leave the hammer down on a loaded chamber on the 1917s, and DA Smiths in general?

Thanks again.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by handejector:
That is what it SHOULD be called, but good ol' S&W actually calls it the "Hammer Nose".

Somewhere in the dim past, I vaguely remembered reading something about a "Hammer Nose" but dismissed it as a very non-technical person trying to describe something he knew little about.

After reading Lee's post, I still could not believe this, so I got out the nearest Parts List / Instructions For Use / Specifications Sheet (happened to be for a Model 13).

There it was:
"5133 Hammer Nose".

Now I need to update my "S&W Speak" translation sheet:

Crane == (S&W) Yoke
Grips == (S&W) Stocks
Lanyard Ring == (S&W) Butt Swivel
Firing Pin == (S&W) Hammer Nose

 

[sw44spl]

very nice 1917 you have there.if it has been redone it will make a great shooter. enjoy it.

 

[handejector]

You can purchase .45 Auto Rim brass cases, and eliminate those dumb "MOON CLIPS".

A "By the Way" for you guys-
I only see moon clips as useful for carrying for a quick reload. When "just shootin", I never use them. The rounds headspace very neatly on the case mouth. MOST empties fall out, some have to be urged with fingernails, and a few have to be poked with a pencil kept in the shirt pocket. Loading and unloading clips eats a lot more time than pulling or poking.
I believe that accuracy is slightly better with the rounds headspacing on the mouths.

quote:
Originally posted by handejector:
Don't worry about it till it falls out.


Right. Thanks.

That is not meant sarcastically. You will find hammer noses that are floppy as long as you fool with old S&W's. Not 1 in a 1000 will give any trouble.

 

[Recoil1776]

Originally posted by handejector:
That is not meant sarcastically. You will find hammer noses that are floppy as long as you fool with old S&W's. Not 1 in a 1000 will give any trouble.

Don't worry, I didn't take it as sarcasm.

But all this firing pin talk makes me wonder: is it safe to keep the hammer down on a loaded chamber in the 1917 and DA Smiths in general? Or do we still have to observe the old single action rule of 5 rounds in the cylinder, hammer down on the empty tube?

 

[bagolden]

My understanding is that the pre-hammer block safety guns are best carried with an empty chamber under the hammer. If my recaller is working right the first guns with this feature also had an S prefix in the serial number. I do hope that someone who knows more about 1917's will help you out. I carry my pre-hammer block safety M&P's with 6 but am ultra careful about dropping them. Then again I carry my 1911 cocked and locked, usually in a Safariland holster that will only strap up with the hammer back. But that's just me.

B

 

[handejector]

The WW I 1917 does NOT have a hammer block.
However, you will have to break the foot off the hammer, or shear the hammer stud to have an AD.
You have to decide whether you want the ultimate safety in carrying 5, or the safety of carrying 6.

SQUARE Butt 38 M&P's had a hammer block from 1915 on.
Oddly, Round Butt 38 M&P's and 38 M&P Target Models did not get a hammer block for 11 more years- in 1926!!

The S appears in 1945, and stands for the new "safety" hammer block.

You can SEE a hammer block in any S&W that has one by doing this:
UNLOAD the gun.
Put your glasses on.
Have good light.
Cock the hammer SLOWLY, looking for the tiny block of steel that pivots RIGHT into the sideplate. If it is an S gun, look for the block sliding DOWN. You cannot assume an S gun has one- they are very easily removed or left out in reassembly.

 

[Recoil1776]

Thanks again to all for the info. Learning about new guns is always fun.

Originally posted by handejector:
The WW I 1917 does NOT have a hammer block.
However, you will have to break the foot off the hammer, or shear the hammer stud to have an AD.
You have to decide whether you want the ultimate safety in carrying 5, or the safety of carrying 6.

After looking at a schematic, I see what you're saying. And after observing the hammer's movement during the trigger release, you can see the hammer move back away, so it's clear the firing pin isn't even close to the primer when at rest. You're right, you'd definitely have to screw your gun up before it'd fire.

Still though, there's always that nagging thought in your head...Safety versus ultimate safety...

Also, is it correct that the 1917's hammer and trigger was not blued and was case hardened instead?

 

[Nicksterdemus]

Still though, there's always that nagging thought in your head...Safety versus ultimate safety

Wasn't that more applicable w/Mr. Colt's sidearms?

 

[Recoil1776]

Originally posted by Nicksterdemus:
Wasn't that more applicable w/Mr. Colt's sidearms?

Well, that's why I asked since this 1917 is my first of what I hope is many S&Ws. I wasn't sure and didn't want to give myself a nice scar down the side of my leg someday, and risk teaching some people a few new cuss words in the process.

After handejector mentioned those parts, I got to looking at the gun and watching how it worked and saw that the hammer comes back out probably close to 1/8". So like he said, unless you broke your gun, there's not really any likelihood you'll have a slam fire (which is the case with any gun). The firing pin isn't even close to a primer with the hammer down.

And since we're now on page two now, to make sure the question's not missed...Is it correct that the 1917's hammer and trigger was case hardened, not blued?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[BUFF]

Yes, case hardened. Nice shooter!

 

[Jack Flash]

If you see blued trigger and hammer, that means someone did a quick and dirty re-blue.