Another one bites the dust

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Buford57

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After all of the horror stories about (un)availability of Alliant powders I started looking for an alternative. I had just gotten comfortable with BE-86 as a replacement for Bullseye in .38 Special, but again, it is an Alliant powder. After researching load data I decided to try H4227. Yesterday I choked down my revulsion at the price and laid out $45 for a pound of the precious stuff. Today I went to Hodgdon's site to see what other rounds it might service. It shows discontinued.

I only load .38 Special, .38 Super and .45 Colt in handgun rounds, so I probably have enough partial bottles of suitable powders to shoot a couple hundred rounds per month for the rest of my life, but I think the .22s are going to see a lot more use.
 
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H4227 has not been available or sold for years now.
It was the ADI powder AR2205.
IMR4227 is still made however (in Canada) and Hodgdon
has it for the outrageous price of $70/lb.
4227 is quite slow for the rounds you load.
It is good in magnum and supermagnum (1.6") revolver rounds.

For your rounds I would try something like Longshot (still fairly slow),
CFE pistol, HS-6 ($46/lb.), or AA-5 ($41/lb.) which are available at Hodgdon.
Or one of the Vihtavouri handgun powders like 3N38, N350, N340, N330.
HS-6, AA-5, and N340 are right next to your BE-86 on the burn chart.
There may be others available in this burn range as well.
https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Copy-of-2024-Smokeless-Relative-Burn-Rate-Chart-WEBSITE.pdf
Good luck!
 
Yep.
IMR4227 has a digressive burn factor (opposite of progressive) according to QuickLOAD.
This makes it nice to work with as you reach maximum pressure (as opposed to say W296 which can spike).
You can basically fill the case with powder and know you'll be safe and accurate.
You really need magnum (35kpsi) or greater (I run .445 in an Encore to 45kpsi) pressure to nicely burn 4227.
It's a fantastic powder for what it does but is quite limited in scope and applications.
 
I now use CFE Pistol in 9mm, 38 spl/357 mag, 38 Super, 45 Colt, 45 acp and 44 spl/magnum unless I want something top end for my lever guns and I use H110. I have found CFE pistol can be loaded light and pretty darn hot. Shoots as clean as any powder I’ve ever used and it’s readily available. The one exception is I have saved some Bullseye for HBWC in my Wad guns.
 
Used 4227 in .44 Mag many years ago, not since. But it was an excellent powder for lead bullet CF rifle loads. I used it for .30-06, .45-70, .308, and .300 Savage. Especially .300 Savage.
 
I know your Pain ... Been there ... am doing that !

My search for a Bullseye stand - in first led me to Red Dot ... that wont fly ...made by ... Alliant !
Next , we found :
imr700X
HP-38 / W231
Titegroup
Ramshot - Zip
Accurate #2
Clays
WST
VV N312

None of the above are made by Alliant and all work well in place of Bullseye .
I have found that Accurate #5 is a tad slower burning than Unique but at mid range velocities and pressure it burns cleanly and measures like water ... it is not a flake more like a ball , easy to dispense .

Bullseye is still my favorite but the other powders will do nicely and no shortage of posted and published data for these powders ...
Load Safe,
Gary
 
DWalt said:
Used 4227 in .44 Mag many years ago, not since. But it was an excellent powder for lead bullet CF rifle loads. I used it for .30-06, .45-70, .308, and .300 Savage. Especially .300 Savage.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll have to give it a try in .45-70 then.

Unless the frequency of my trips to the range increases significantly I'm probably in good shape for powder for about 10 years and my tolerance for sitting on a stool pulling a lever will likely run out first.
 
Try Shooters World Ultimate Pistol?

Just started reading the latest Handloader last night and right near the beginning Bob Behr's Propellant Profiles covers Shooters World Ultimate Pistol.
This powder (Lovex D036-07) allegedly is aimed to replace Unique and would work well with all your cartridges.
He tested it at both ends of the 45 colt brass (tipped up and down) to see how well it ignited and passed flying colors.
There are recipes for some of them in the article.
380acp: 90 Sierra JHP, 4.0 SWUP, WSP, COAL .97", 845 fps
38spl: 158 Lyman SWC, 4.5 SWUP, WSP, COAL 1.46" 746 fps
45colt: 250 Lyman SWC, 8.5 SWUP, CCI300, COAL 1.592" 844 fps
Also loads for 32S&W, 9mm, 357mag, 40S&W, 10mm, 44mag, 45acp

I am definitely going to have to try getting some of this powder to use in 44 spl to replace Unique and Universal which I am running out of.
Unfortunately it's out of stock at a couple places I checked and gunbot doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

Here's the Shooters World manual (6/2023)
https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ShootersWorldManualInterior_CHRIS_WITH-COVER__RUSS-REVISED.pdf
 
Nemo288 said:
Yep.
IMR4227 has a digressive burn factor (opposite of progressive) according to QuickLOAD.
This makes it nice to work with as you reach maximum pressure (as opposed to say W296 which can spike).
You can basically fill the case with powder and know you'll be safe and accurate.
You really need magnum (35kpsi) or greater (I run .445 in an Encore to 45kpsi) pressure to nicely burn 4227.
It's a fantastic powder for what it does but is quite limited in scope and applications.
Click to expand...

I've made up some cast bullet loads using IMR4227 in the .357 Magnum. They've been quite accurate. My loads are just under max according to paper load manual data. I don't recall unburned powder but maybe it was there. That may not be acceptable to today's fastidious shooters, but it's a most insignificant factor for me as long as the loads are accurate and velocity is good.

I've also had very good results with IMR4227 in the .32-40 and .38-55 rifle cartridges, again with cast bullets.
 
Despite unavailability of several powders, we still have a glut of other powders, more so than ever before. It would indeed be a rare circumstance if you were unable to duplicate with another powder a load you previously used, as long as you do proper load development and testing.
 
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I can still live with the cost of supplys need for reloading ammo, to go shooting, at the present time...........

since it is still cheaper than having to take my boat out to go fishing.

So far. ( Big Grin )
 
Nemo288 said:
Just started reading the latest Handloader last night and right near the beginning Bob Behr's Propellant Profiles covers Shooters World Ultimate Pistol.
This powder (Lovex D036-07) allegedly is aimed to replace Unique and would work well with all your cartridges.
He tested it at both ends of the 45 colt brass (tipped up and down) to see how well it ignited and passed flying colors.
There are recipes for some of them in the article.
380acp: 90 Sierra JHP, 4.0 SWUP, WSP, COAL .97", 845 fps
38spl: 158 Lyman SWC, 4.5 SWUP, WSP, COAL 1.46" 746 fps
45colt: 250 Lyman SWC, 8.5 SWUP, CCI300, COAL 1.592" 844 fps
Also loads for 32S&W, 9mm, 357mag, 40S&W, 10mm, 44mag, 45acp

I am definitely going to have to try getting some of this powder to use in 44 spl to replace Unique and Universal which I am running out of.
Unfortunately it's out of stock at a couple places I checked and gunbot doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

Here's the Shooters World manual (6/2023)
https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ShootersWorldManualInterior_CHRIS_WITH-COVER__RUSS-REVISED.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks. My copy arrived yesterday, but I hadn't had a chance to look at it yet.
 
sjmjax said:
I hope you have better luck with 4227 than I have had so far.
Made many pleasant shooting magnum loads but found it doesn’t burn completely. Lots of unburned powder residue.
Click to expand...

From what I've read, that has always been one of the biggest complaints about 4227, especially when it is used for lighter loadings.
The closer you get to maximum loads the less of an issue this becomes. Or so I have read.
On the other hand, how big of an issue is the unburned powder residue? If you're cleaning your gun after a range session anyway, does really it take any EXTRA effort to clean up the unburned powder residue?
Seems like it should be a non-issue to me.
One thing I like about using 4227 to reload magnum rounds is that even when they are loaded at or near the top of the range, the recoil and blast are noticeably milder than rounds loaded to comparable velocities using H110 or 2400.
Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me.
 
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Woe is me, my favorite powder now has a different name/ designation. Because that’s about all it amounts to.
Bullseye, 452AA, 231, HP38, A#2 and probably a lot more, are for all practical purposes are all the same thing. Get a chronograph, and get a charge weight that produces the desired velocity, and move on. Pick a burning rate, any burning rate, and there are several choices of powders.

Loading handgun ammo? 10 grains of a $45 a pound powder costs $6.43 a hundred. Go to McDonalds with $6.43 and tell me what you walk away with.

You can’t make ends meet? (which I SERIOUSLY doubt) stay out of gun shops. We Shooters have it better than ever. Count your blessings.
 
Today I was offered a bunch of different powders. But to let it be known I only bought a few...Mostly older powders. Heck I was offered a 5 pound 700X for 60 dollars In a metal can dated Feb 28 1977. What I did buy was a few CANS of Hercules powders Metal cans 2 2400 2 Unique 2 Bullseye. and one pound of Hodgdon H4227...newly manufactured not surplus(1970s?)...all unopened and priced at 10 dollars. I turned down an open can of Blue Dot even though full. weight. Yep older powder is still out there. and Hercules pistol/shotgun powders don't seem to go bad...I also got another large lot of Alcan and other Berdan primers all in their little sealed tins. There are still powders out there if you really look. I recently bought 6 pounds of Hodgdon HS 5 for 2 dollars a pound . Keep an eye out. advertise in the paper and check estate sales. I got 2 full boxes of Winchester pre 1960 3 inch 410 shells for 40 dollars. I traded one today for an RCBS Big Max Press the fellow had 70 dollars on. If you seek quite often you can find what you need. I got an exc condition Mec 600 Mark V with an adj charge bar and auto primer feed in 20 ga for 20 dollars
 
I use IMR4227 in my magnum (357/44j lever action rifles. Really like it in those - accurate and, for me with a bad shoulder, soft shooting. It meters well also using the RCBS Uniflow. Don’t mind the unburned powder residue as I clean my rifles after each range day. However, it’s hard to find locally and pricey when found. With hazmat and shipping, it get pricey still
 
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