"Another" Shield 40 First Impressions

[David Honeycutt]

Picked up my new 40 Shield Monday and made it to the range this morning. Fired a 54-round combination of Fed 180 FMJ, Winch 165 FMJ, Fed 135 JHC and Atlanta Arms 180 FMJ Minor Velocity. Had zero problems. Accuracy was great at 7 yards on torso target.

Obversations: Generally very positive. I am pleased. However, as others have reported, the trigger travel is a little too long and trigger weight is a little heavy. I will correct these two issues as soon as Apex Tactical starts shipping from their new faciltiy. I will also install Talon Grips to give a more secure feel to this slim single stack weapon. I liked the feel of the extended magazine better than the flush magazine---seemed to provide better recoil control.

The M&P Shield 40 will relace my PT709 as my primary CCW (IWB & pocket carry). Both magazines will be loaded with Fed Guard Dog 135s. The Shield is a great addition to my M&P 40 line-up--- the 5" Pro (IDPA), the Full Size (night stand) and the Compact (car console).

David

 

[ChiefT]

Congrats!! I'm waiting on the 40 also. Don't have a 9 and don't want to add another caliber to my inventory (except for 45).

Just got my M&P 15T Thursday so my M&P 40 FS has a big brother..

Gotta' ad the little brother once they're more readily avail.

 

[robkarrob]

I've had the Apex sear and striker block in for a week. Trigger pull down to 4.25 lbs from 6.5lbs. Actual striker pull was only reduced a little over 1/32 inch (approx .040). Overtravel cut in half from 1/8 to 1/16 inch. My stock Shield 40 had a lot of "gritty" feeling in the pull from the striker block. I put in the Apex block, figuring that would go away. The gritty pull was still there. Pulled the striker block out and found S&W left a manufacturing burr in the striker block bore. The burr was where the hole narrows about a half inch below the top of the slide (goes from larger diameter to smaller/lip). I tried to file it out but material is hard. Used a small dremmel grinding bit. Did not use the dremmel as too high of speed and it would have broke the bit. I first removed the striker. I Used my drill motor and ground the burr out. Lot of grinding material and had to clean the slide area around the hole. Put it all back together and now smooth as silk. Thanks S&W for the extra work.

I now have a pretravel stop in. Total trigger movement from start to the trigger stop on trigger guard is 1/4 inch. It's like a 1911 trigger. Sweet!

I have a video up on the before and after Apex sear and block. Didn't have the overtravel stop in for that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1EG-caVBXQ


Bob

 

[alatour]

I've had the Apex sear and striker block in for a week. Trigger pull down to 4.25 lbs from 6.5lbs. Actual striker pull was only reduced a little over 1/32 inch (approx .040). Overtravel cut in half from 1/8 to 1/16 inch. My stock Shield 40 had a lot of "gritty" feeling in the pull from the striker block. I put in the Apex block, figuring that would go away. The gritty pull was still there. Pulled the striker block out and found S&W left a manufacturing burr in the striker block bore. The burr was where the hole narrows about a half inch below the top of the slide (goes from larger diameter to smaller/lip). I tried to file it out but material is hard. Used a small dremmel grinding bit. Did not use the dremmel as too high of speed and it would have broke the bit. I first removed the striker. I Used my drill motor and ground the burr out. Lot of grinding material and had to clean the slide area around the hole. Put it all back together and now smooth as silk. Thanks S&W for the extra work.

I now have a pretravel stop in. Total trigger movement from start to the trigger stop on trigger guard is 1/4 inch. It's like a 1911 trigger. Sweet!

I have a video up on the before and after Apex sear and block. Didn't ahve the overtravel stop in for that video.

M&P Shield Apex Tactical Trigger Kit Install - YouTube

Bob

Bob what did you use to take the pre-travel out?

 

[robkarrob]

I've attached four pics. One shows the position of the at rest trigger. Note the stop at the bottom rear of the trigger guard. The full stroke of the trigger is 1/4 inch, including takeup and over travel to that stop. Even with the Apex kit, I am getting 1/16 inch of overtravel, as compared to 1/8 inch stock. The 1/16 inch is still too much. I want no more than 1/64 inch. I am thinking the best way to make a stop is to remove the bottom of the trigger, the plastic trigger safety part. Add some filler to the bottom and file fit it in until I get the overtravel I want.

The second pic shows the pre-travel stop. Look for the arrow. Note the small block of hard rubber between the trigger bar and the frame. When pressure is released from the trigger, the trigger spring pulls the trigger and trigger bar forward. This piece of glued in rubber stops the movement of the trigger bar, controlling the pretravel. I cut the size of this rubber block for the amount of pretravel I wanted.

The striker block safety works properly. The manual safety works. I had to shorten the tail from the end of the trigger bar to allow the manual safety to work. It is now .140 inch shorter. The trigger safety is the only safety that does not work. All I would have to do is file fit the end of the trigger safety lever and it would work. I think the way S&W designed this trigger safety was incorrect and it doesn't stop accidental movement. The entire bottom half of the trigger (see photo) is the so called safety. It really would not stop any accidental trigger movement. If any part of the bottom of the trigger is touched, the safety lever releases and the trigger would move. It would only stop accidental movement of the top part of the trigger (above the safety). What are the odds of that happening. The purpose of this safety is to prevent something (other than your finger) from accidentally contacting the trigger and causing it to fire. One scenario could be a loose pen in a woman's purse. She reaches for something and when pulling it out the pen gets snagged. The pen is inside the trigger guard. The pen pulls the trigger and bang. Not too likely but anything is possible.

The better trigger safety has a centered safety button (lever) in the middle of the trigger. I have a Springfield XD45 which has that style of trigger safety (see photo). This style of trigger safety will do a better job of stopping accidental trigger movement. Touching the outside of the trigger will not allow the trigger to move. Something has to touch the center button to get the trigger to move. This style may not have prevented the above scenario, but it is still a better design.

Bob

 

[alatour]

I am pretty sure Apex is working on a trigger for the Shield.

 

[RussC]

Dave:

Hate to toss cold water on the party but you may want to look elsewhere for the Talon grip.

It has been reported on this forum the owner passed away and the company is not back to form.

It is unfortunate for the family for the loss and it will be a loss to the gun community if the Talon family can't continue providing an excellent product.

Russ

 

[presspics]

Oh my! That pretravel reducing rubber block is a Pandoras box just waiting to be opened...

 

[robkarrob]

I have used a rubber block in several other guns with no failures and no problems. It is "hard" rubber, like tire tread hard. It is securely in place. Even if the glue would fail (has not happened in my other guns) the block will not fall out. At full trigger pull the block is larger than the opening between the trigger bar and the frame. I had to force it in and out when sizing it. It cushions the return as opposed to metal or plastic. It's not like I just added a rubber band or paper clip type of modification. A little thought went into it for the what if situations. So chime in and explain how you would limit pretravel. Or explain you Pandoras box. Please don't say with the $160 Apex kit. Also no welding allowed on the trigger bar and there is not enough area/material to put a set screw in the trigger bar to replace the rubber stop. We are speaking of removing pretravel. I don't like wasted trigger motion.

 

[presspics]

Trigger pretravel is a non factor in actual use. I guarantee that you would never notice pretravel, overtravel or even trigger weight in an actual gun battle. Pretravel and overtravel are only noticed when sitting on the couch and dry firing. Very few people are actually good enough shooters that pretravel and overtravel will make a difference.

That piece of rubber can easily become dislodged and hang up the gun. And to have it set up so that it doesn't allow the trigger safety to engage is just plain foolish. That gun is a tragedy waiting to happen...

 

[SMMAssociates]

Bob:

I don't think I'd want that piece of rubber either - presspics probably has it right....

However, we agree on the "safe" trigger.... Worthless lawyer-inspired (not to mention marketing, I suppose) joke. I had an XD with the trigger shown - dumped it for other reasons. Really, I don't think that's useful, either. Just about anything that can grab the trigger in a pocket, purse, or holster, is likely to fire the thing if held in place long enough.

Now, drop safeties, although semi-useless, at least can help out if the trigger is not kept depressed long enough. The trigger thing seems like it'd keep the trigger depressed long enough....

(Now, if you've got a Kimber or other gun with a Swartz-type drop safety, that's based on the grip safety. Not a lot of help there with a "tapped" trigger.)

40+ years playing with this stuff - I learn something once in a while. Every decade, at least ....

Regards,

 

[MP1SG]

Trigger pretravel is a non factor in actual use. I guarantee that you would never notice pretravel, overtravel or even trigger weight in an actual gun battle. Pretravel and overtravel are only noticed when sitting on the couch and dry firing. Very few people are actually good enough shooters that pretravel and overtravel will make a difference.

That piece of rubber can easily become dislodged and hang up the gun. And to have it set up so that it doesn't allow the trigger safety to engage is just plain foolish. That gun is a tragedy waiting to happen...

I agree with Presspics, espically about noticing pre travel over travel etc etc. When the rounds start to fly your either looking for cover or retuning fire. I doubt someone will be thinking about trigger reset etc etc.
IMO and IMO ONLY, I do not like doing any modifications at all to my carry guns. Something as little as adding a stainless steel guider rod to my Glocks Makes me nervous. Glock designed their pistols around a PLASTIC guide rod, maybe because plastic gives a little and is more flexible. I also get concerened with the weapons realiability when you mess with the parts. Having said that i know people who have installed parts and have never ever had a reliability issue Just My opinion though.
thanks
1SG

 

[robkarrob]

Anyone who fires a gun in matches will tell you are wrong. Pretravel is not as important as you do not have to fully release the trigger to get the reset. However overtravel is very important in shooting. If overtravel is limited to the bare minimum, shooting accuracy is improved. Not only is accuracy improved but recovery and on target acquisition is also improved. Anything that helps you shoot better, if you practice, will help in a SD situation. I am a retired LEO and we trained for trigger control. My question remains how to limit pretravel, not why you don't need to limit pretravel.

As soon as we can order replacement parts for the Shield ( S&W is not currently selling any Shield parts, not even to S&W dealers) you will see another modification to my Shield. I have large hands and as the break point is near the rear of the trigger guard, my trigger finger goes well past 90 degrees to get the break. I have to slide my trigger finger in to the first joint to make the pull, not on my finger pad. When I get another trigger bar in my hands, the break point will be moved forward to near the middle of the trigger guard, about 1/2 inch further forward. S&W rep told me parts will likely not be available for many months. He said they don't even have a parts schematic for the Shield.

Bob

 

[sleddman]

All I can say on this topic is that if I wanted a target or competition pistol it would not have been the M&P Shield. I use my gun for carry and would not alter a thing. When doing so you will have lots of explaining to do if you did have to use it to protect yourself. I have seen this first person. I would suggest you not change anything from factory in a carry weapon from factory specs. Now if you are only using it for comp. and target fun that is another story. Have fun but be safe.

 

[robkarrob]

My post was about the better you can shoot a gun, the better you can use it in a SD (self defense) situation. It was not about making the Shield a target gun. I said if you ask someone that shoots competitively, they will tell you the value of a trigger stop. If it helps competitive shooters, does it make sense it might help in as SD situation. Anything that helps you shoot better is a benefit. Not all SD situations are a suprise. You sense danger and you get prepared for how you are going to react.

Modifications to make a gun shoot better, be more accurate, more comfortable to shoot, etc., are up to the individual gun owner. There are some that would never alter their gun for fear it won't work right. I have no problem with that. All my modification are throughly tested at the range, prior to using the gun as a SD weapon. The trigger safety is a joke. It is not going to prevent anything. My LC9 had no trigger safety along with the Kahr's and many others without a trigger safety. I haven't seen many on 1911's (LOL). The safety is your finger and following safe gun handling practices.

You're not going to be arrested if you are involved in a shooting using a modified gun. First if you are the shooter, no matter what the situation, justified or not, you can count on being sued. Our country has a lawsuit mentality. If you intended to shoot someone, you pointed the gun and pulled the trigger, the modifications on a gun will have no bearing. If the intent was to shoot the person, the fact that you made the weapon easier to shoot, more accurate, more dangerous, etc., would not matter. You pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. The word is intent. From that point it would up to the police (to arrest) and the prosecutor (to press charges), depending on the shooting circumstances. Any modifications to the gun would not matter if you intended to shoot.

What would matter if your gun fired accidentally. Then the modifications would likely come into play. If those modifications made the gun less safe, then you could be arrested. Charges from a minimum of illegal discharge up to a maximum of negligent homicide for a death. Of course a lwasuit will follow most accidental shootings.

Bob

 

[SMMAssociates]

IMHO, you should worry about the idiot prosecutor/judge/jury who went down on the guy who defended himself with a 10mm some time back. "Too powerful for SD - you intended to kill somebody", or something like that. (My memory's a little hazy on this one - out in Oregon or Washington, I think.)

Otherwise, for an SD gun, mucking with the pre and post travel probably isn't worth the effort (again, IMHO), but the unsprung portion of the pre-travel (the part where you just have to move the trigger back to get near the trip zone) is fair game, and if the gun's got a stop, that's good, too. Just don't muck with the latter if you don't know what you're doing. Most of us should just leave that alone....

IMHO, the M&P series are all intended for a simple straight-through trigger pull. No "staging", or any magic at all. Just squeeze.... Reset is somewhat important, but that involves just coming all the way off the trigger for a little bit between shots.

'Course, not everybody will agree with me, which is OK. (Unless we're on MY board, in which case my little dog and his two feline buddies will make your life miserable .)

Regards,