Any Info On This M&P?

[thedoctors308]

In my thread about my newly purchased but not yet arrived Model 28, I posted a picture of my only other Smith, an M&P.
I was told to post it on the pre-war side of the board, so I have.

From the stock style, the ejector rod, and the "Made In USA" I think this M&P was made between 1922 and 1929.
It is chambered in .38 Special and has a round butt.
Serial number is 468XXX.
I have an authenticity request form filled out that I'll be sending to Roy Jinks soon enough.

 

[thedoctors308]

In my thread about my newly purchased but not yet arrived Model 28, I posted a picture of my only other Smith, an M&P.
I was told to post it on the pre-war side of the board, so I have.

From the stock style, the ejector rod, and the "Made In USA" I think this M&P was made between 1922 and 1929.
It is chambered in .38 Special and has a round butt.
Serial number is 468XXX.
I have an authenticity request form filled out that I'll be sending to Roy Jinks soon enough.

 

[digi-shots]

Welcome to the forum!

I've got a similar one, with a square butt, serial number 449,xxx shipped May of 1923. It belonged to a Philidaelphia police sergeant.

 

[pace40]

Tell me thats grease pencil on the sideplate and it wipes right off

 

[mikepriwer]

It should be about 1923, maybe early 1924.

From the factory literature perspective, this is an interesting
gun. If you letter it, it will most likely letter as a 1905.
But, from the factory perspective, it is a 1902. The factory
definition of a 1905 is the square butt. So, round butt can not
possibly, in the eyes of the factory, be a 1905. It is the
model of 1902.

If you do request a letter, raise this point with the historian.
Tell him that it is a round butt, and ask him how it is described
in the factory shipping, and invoice, records.

The "collectors" have, for reasons of consistency, deviated
from the factory literature, and adopted a set of conventions
that result in this being a 1905 - which it isn't !

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[azmick]

The factory
definition of a 1905 is the square butt.

what time frame did that change to include both grip styles to one model?

 

[mikepriwer]

Azmick

I'm not sure what your question is.

The square butt was introduced in late 1904, and was called the model
of 1905. Up until about the middle 1920's, both the model of 1902 and the
model of 1905 are on the same catalog page, but with different model names.
At that point, the names change to other names, but the distinction is
always made that the square butt is one model, and the round butt is
another model. In the parts catalog, the frame for the model of 1902 is
carried all the way to 1940.

After the war, both models are carried in the catalogs and flyers -
a square-butt model 10, and a round-butt model 10. It is always two
separate models up until about 1970. Ultimately, the square butt model
is dicontinued, and only the round butt remains today.

The introduction of the square-butt model of 1905 was the first square
butt frame that the factory ever produced. The model of 1902 ( with the round
butt frame ) is the longest continuously-produced gun in the history
of S & W.

Does this answer your question ? I wrote a longer piece about this for
the S&WCA site, if you are a member.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[thedoctors308]

Originally posted by pace40:
Tell me thats grease pencil on the sideplate and it wipes right off

Sadly no.
I believe it is an officer's badge number engraved into the gun.
Someone engraved their initials into the sideplate, and an enterprising individual tried to remove them with a dremel tool.

Heartbreaking if you ask me.
Thankfully, I rescued this weapon and 600 rounds of vintage ammo for $150.
The pictures are from when I first purchased it, and it has cleaned up fairly well since then, save for the sideplate.
Should I attempt to restore the sideplate, or should I replace it?
If replacement, what is a good source for the proper plate?

 

[thedoctors308]

Originally posted by mikepriwer:
It should be about 1923, maybe early 1924.

From the factory literature perspective, this is an interesting
gun. If you letter it, it will most likely letter as a 1905.
But, from the factory perspective, it is a 1902. The factory
definition of a 1905 is the square butt. So, round butt can not
possibly, in the eyes of the factory, be a 1905. It is the
model of 1902.

If you do request a letter, raise this point with the historian.
Tell him that it is a round butt, and ask him how it is described
in the factory shipping, and invoice, records.

The "collectors" have, for reasons of consistency, deviated
from the factory literature, and adopted a set of conventions
that result in this being a 1905 - which it isn't !

Regards, Mike Priwer

Thank you for the helpful and informative post.
I will make sure to raise those questions.

 

[Muley Gil]

Side plates are fitted to the revolver. It's hard to find a replacement that truly fits.

 

[Deacon KC]

On the side plate, you could remove it from the gun, then using a sheet of glass, tape some very fine grit wet/dry sandpaper to the glass. Using a light oil like Remoil or 3in1, making sure to keep the plate flat on the paper, try sanding it out that way. You have to use a FLAT surface for this, so as not to dish the edges of the plate. This is a last resort method, but will work. Go slow and change the paper often. Be advised you will never get a cold touch up blue to exactly match the rest of the gun, so you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils.

 

[handejector]

Originally posted by DeaconKC:
On the side plate, you could remove it from the gun, then using a sheet of glass, tape some very fine grit wet/dry sandpaper to the glass. Using a light oil like Remoil or 3in1, making sure to keep the plate flat on the paper, try sanding it out that way. You have to use a FLAT surface for this, so as not to dish the edges of the plate. This is a last resort method, but will work. Go slow and change the paper often. Be advised you will never get a cold touch up blue to exactly match the rest of the gun, so you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils.

I have to disagree- as deeply as the sideplate is cut, you better be quite young if you are going to cut it down till flat again, AND, all that work will be for nought. The sideplate will then be NOTICEABLY below flush in the frame.
It is wiser to leave some alone, or move them along to acquire a better gun. ALL things can not be undone.

 

[mikepriwer]

ALL things can not be undone.

Scrambled eggs is one of them !

Lee's advice is good - the plate would be lower than the frame.

And as Muley pointed out - replacement side plates are very difficult to get fit.

IF you want to somehow deal with this sideplate issue, I have two suggestions.
I do have a couple of extra sideplates, from approximately this vintage. The chances
that they would fit are close to zero, but a competent gunsmith might be able to
do a reasonable job with them. More than likely, it would cost more than the gun
is worth.

Second IF you are considering disposing of the gun, I would be interested in
buying the grips, in one fashion or another.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[pace40]

Great advice from all here. Somtimes, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole...this may be one of those times.

 

[gold40]

While it is no longer "true collector quality", it is still a nice old gun that probably shoots well.

If it were mine, I'd enjoy it as-is, or perhaps clean up the sideplate, even though it will be uneven. Irs normal for a 70 year old gun (or person) to have a few faults; that doesn't mean it is has no worth.

 

[texmex]

If it has a good bore, it would be a good candidate for engraving. That would cover up all the abuse. After all this revolver has been through, it might deserve some TLC.