Any suggestions? Problem with Model 629 and H110

[AveragEd]

What do you guys feel is a good target load for the .44? I have loaded for the .38/.357 and .41 Magnum for a long time but am fairly new to the .44.

I haven't shot any of them yet, but I loaded 50 rounds in new Remington brass with the Hunter Supply "hard cast" 240-grain SWC over 6.0 grains of Bullseye with a CCI 300 standard large pistol primer. Those bullets are not supposed to lead barrels up to 1,600 fps but according to the manuals I have and the data I could find online, the Bullseye load should be right around 900 fps.

What's the preferred powder for a nice practice round in the .44?

Ed

 

[bmcgilvray]

Hi Ed;

My long time favorite mild accuracy load for the .44 Magnum is 8.0 grains of Unique under a quality 245-250 grain cast lead semi-wadcutter. This load chronographs 949 fps from my 8 3/8-inch Model 29.

Mild shooting, groups tight, and cuts nice big holes in targets.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Hi Ed;

My long time favorite mild accuracy load for the .44 Magnum is 8.0 grains of Unique under a quality 245-250 grain cast lead semi-wadcutter. This load chronographs 949 fps from my 8 3/8-inch Model 29.

Mild shooting, groups tight, and cuts nice big holes in targets.

I'll second this, and I'll add 8 grains of 231 as well. Both have always ben very nice target loads in all of my .44 magnums.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Midrange load for me in a magnum case is a 250g cast over 7g W231. I figure that to be right around 900fps.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As the others have said, H110/W296 probably isn't the best powder for lead bullets in the .44 Magnum. When I load lead in Magnum calibers I like HS-6 but Unique, Universal and 2400 will also do a good job. (among other powders in that burn rate range)

 

[miamimert]

Jon9,
I have reloaded over 4500 rounds of .44 magnum in three different loads. Approximately, 900 rounds have been using 22.5 grains of H110 with a 240 grain plated bullet and CCI 300 large pistol primers. Approximately, 1300 rounds have been using 24 grains of H110 with the same bullet and same primers and the remaining rounds have been using 10.5 grains of HS6 with a 240 grain hard cast bullet and CCI 300 large pistol primer. All rounds have been reloaded with mixed brass to an OAL of 1.681 and a crimp of .440. With the HS6 powder I have only had two rounds that did not fire because the primer did not ignite but with the H110 have not had any problems.

A word of advise from my reloading experience. Occasionally you will encounter primers that do not ignite. In the past 15 years I have loaded over 100,000 rounds in .38 special, 9mm, .357 magnum, .40 s&w, .45 ACP, .45 long colt and .44 magnum. I have used four different primer manufactures (CCI, Winchester, Remington and PMC primers) in small and large pistol and I have used seven different powders (H110, HS6, HP38, Bullseye, 231, power pistol, and Trail Boss). I have had about two dozen small pistol primers combined in .38 special, 9mm and .40 s&w and about 12 large pistol primers in .45ACP and .44 magnum that did not ignite. I have a couple of friends and acquaintances that are large volume reloaders and they too have had the same issues.
I hope the info helps.

 

[blujax01]

One thing I have learned in the past month is this:

Always start with the bullet.

I bought Berry's bullets and the first thing their web site says is :"Not for use with magnum loads."

If you go to Rainier Ballistics web site the first thing it says is: "Enter" but the load data page says to use lead bullet data and lacking that, reduce the jacketed data by 10%. Further, the FAQ page says the maximum velocity should be 1200 - 1250 fps.
Rainier Ballist, Bullets

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Welcome to the forum!

miamimert-
It sounds like you have lots of good practical experience with several calibers.

You may have had acceptable results from standard primers, but you are the exception to the rule. Hodgdon specifically warns to use magnum primers for H-110. Maybe you have a chrono, and maybe not, you didn't say.
I have been using H-110 for the last 30 years, and I have owned an Oehler 35P for the last 23. I owned a Competion Electronics before that for a few years. I can tell you from firsthand experience that sooner or later you will get a squib load, it's just a matter of time with that powder and standard primers, and when actually checked over the chrono, the magnum primers give much more uniform ballistics.

BTW- you have only used 6 powders. HP-38 and 231 are the exact same powder as are H-110 and 296. Many never knew that until a few years ago when Hodgdon finally took over marketing Winchester powders and started to admitted it.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I agree G4F!

miamimert-
You may have had acceptable results from standard primers, but you are the exception to the rule. Hodgdon specifically warns to use magnum primers for H-110. Maybe you have a chrono, and maybe not, you didn't say.

BTW- you have only used 6 powders. HP-38 and 231 are the exact same powder as are H-110 and 296. Many never knew that until a few years ago when Hodgdon finally took over marketing Winchester powders and started to admitted it.

I concur! Exception to the rule and my Beta Shooting Chrony confirms it!

 

[andyo5]

Your problem is probably that you reduced 10% from the minimum. That's why they list a starting charge.
Try something in the middle, like 28.2 grains and be sure to use a magnum primer with H110.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Your problem is probably that you reduced 10% from the minimum. That's why they list a starting charge.
Try something in the middle, like 28.2 grains and be sure to use a magnum primer with H110.

And even if you did reduce the charge 10% from the Max Hodgdon recommends only reducing the Max charge by 3% with H110.

This is directly from the Hodgdon Load Data site:

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

 

[miamimert]

Thank you for your input. Interesting information gentlemen. Please advise. It's my understanding that a squib load is the ignition of the primer but not the powder. If so then something is causing a change in the heat sensitivity of powder ignition, possibly temperature changes, humidity and elevation changes post completion of loaded cartridge.
If anyone has knowledge or information please advise.
Thank you for your attention in this matter.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

A squib is simply a round that doesn't ignite totally as it should.

It may be just the primer that goes off (usually with enough force to drive the bullet into the forcing cone, but, depending on the type of bullet, it may lodge part way down the bore), or it may be that only the primer goes off and a very small part of the powder column ignites, which almost always leaves a bullet stuck in the bore. Ball powders are double base powders and harder to ignite properly than a single based powder.

Due to the fact that ball powders in the slow range like H-110/296 require a full charge in the case to keep pressures from spiking wildly, there is a lot more of it in any round it is appropriate in than say a round with a medium burner like Unique. It is also denser in composition. It requires a hotter flame to thoroughly ignite the powder column.


If you call and chat with the folks at Hodgdon, they will usually give you a decently detailed explanation of all this, and you'll be getting it right from the manufacturer instead of from some ononymous poster on a gun forum like me.

It's the safest way to go when you're not sure.

Again, just for informational support purposes
This is copied directly from their site-

For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.


Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

 

[MDaly]

Call Hodgdon 800-622-4366 ext 110 talk to Mike to discuss this. Get rid of plated bullets and get a jacketed bullet or a gas checked lead bullet with a crimp groove. Put a heavy crimp on anything using H110/296. Use mag primers only. Do not reduce loads.

Your squibs indicate low pressure that could not sustain powder burn. You had little crimp and a light primer.

MD

 

[Inspector-Callahan]

Freedom Arms...

The problem with using plated bullets at top pressures is that they can over obturate, which causes pressures to skyrocket. It's the same thing Dick Casull and Wayne Baker found would happen when they pushed regular jacketed bullets desiged for the .45 Colt, to .454 velocities and pressures. The pressures spiked quickly, sometimes to too high to be safe levels. That is why Freedom Arms designed their own bullets with ultra strong jackets early on.

+1. I have a buddy that accelerated forcing cone wear on his FA casull by running bullets that were too soft at max velocity. Hence the newer XTP-MAG with thicker jacketing for the Full-Tilt loads.

I would think it unwise to use plated bullets for anything but moderate velocities. JMHO.

IC

 

[220combat]

As already stated, get rid of the plated bulelts with 296/H-110, and use Mag primers and a firm crimp. My 44's prefer heavy bullets with 296 over lighter ones.

 

[J. W.]

H-110/W296 is made for hot loads. Reducing them will caue issues. IMO, stick to max or near max listed loads. I've shot quite a bit of 300g XTP's over 20.0g H-110 and have found it to be quite accurate. Just for sh**s and giggles I tried a few 240g plated bullets over, as I recall, 24 g H-110. Function was fine, but accuracy was poor because a proper charge of H-110 drives the bullet faster than a plated bullet is intended to travel.

 

[jon9]

Latest results - thanks your comments

After I read all the comments here I loaded H110 at 27.5 grains (per Hodgdon site), using 200 grain Hornady XTP (.430" dia.) Also, I used CCI #350 magnum primers and new Winchester cases.

Results were a world of difference. H110 burned very clean, with no residue on the case. The shock wave upon firing was interesting. The wooden walls of the lane I was on at an outside firing range shook.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Results were a world of difference. H110 burned very clean, with no residue on the case. The shock wave upon firing was interesting. The wooden walls of the lane I was on at an outside firing range shook.

And that my friend is EXACTLY what H110/W296 is designed for. Top end loads, only. If you want to have lighter magnum loads, it will be hard to beat your old powder, Unique.

Glad you worked this out!

 

[tdan]

Like Skip says, H-110 is the high-octane fuel to get max velocity in the 44Mag. My performance load is 23.5gr. of H-110 under a 240 gr. XTP. I've never had a problem lighting these off with WLP primers. My 629's sing a sweet song with this load. That said, you mention you are more concerned with a good target load. If you can afford to plink with XTP's, more power to you. I would suggest a good hard cast lead bullet. The Lyman 429421 or RCBS 250-K are excellent leads. While medium burning powders like Unique are fine with these bullets, I have gotten excellent results with the slower burning Blue Dot. A 250gr. Keith lead clocking around 1200fps delivers pin-point accuracy in my 629's and is relatively soft shooting.