Any suggestions? Problem with Model 629 and H110

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jon9

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Any suggestions on how to solve this problem are appreciated.

I have a Model 629, .44 magnum, 6" barrel. Usually, I use Unique powder for reloading .44 mag cases. I decided to try H110, as it seems it gets great reviews. However, when I test fired trial reloads, I have gotten squib rounds stuck in the breach end of the barrel on two occasions.

Here is what I am loading for .44 mag:

*Bullet -- 200 grain Ranier Leadsafe plated bullets (.429 diameter).

*H110 powder -- Lee loading manual recommends 27.5 grains compressed to 28.5 compressed (maximum). For test load I tried 90% of 27.5 = 24.75 grains of H110 powder.

*Primer -- CCI#300

*Case -- Remington

*OAL -- Lee manual recommends 1.61", my OAL is 1.59" .

In general I have found H110, when compared to my Unique loads, seems to fire heavy (lot more recoil).

Thanks for your advice in advance.
 
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H110 is one of those powders that less is worse than more!

It burns very slow and loads below the minimum can/will produce more pressure than loads near maximum.

I like H110 but it is very sensitive. Stay within the recommended loads.
 
Welcome to the forum!

You need to switch to CCI 350's or any brand of magnum primer. H-110 absolutely requires a magnum primer to burn correctly.

The plated bullets you are using are also a poor choice for loads that are running at, or near the top. They should be held to 1200 fps or less. :)

The .002" difference in OAL isn't that big a deal, since it is so small, but any time you reduce powder capacity, you raise pressure with an otherwise equal charge of powder. Be careful when doing that, and you need to try to exactly match components shown on websites and in manuals.

You will receive lots of posts on this issue I am betting.
 
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H110/296 does require a magnum primer and a very heavy crimp for good ignition. They also caution not to reduce charge weight.

I have never used it with the lighter bullets for caliber but some combination of light bullet, std primer, and loose crimp and a light charge might be causing your ignition failures.

Ward
 
I am wondering if you are not developing enough pressure with the plated bullets. You might try some 240 grain jacketed bullets with published loads and a firm crimp. I like Hornady XTP's with my 629 and H110. I have never hunted with them but they shoot great and the empties pretty much just drop out of the cylinder. They wake up the shooters in the other stalls too;).
 
Magnum primers? I've shot over 800 rounds with standard Winchester LP primers and 24 gr of H110 under a 240grain bullet. Nary a single squib, all exited the barrel quite rapidly.
 
Yes, magnum primers. Recommended by the manufacturer, recommended by loading manuals. Use them.

To the OP, listen to all the advice above. H110/W296 is not a powder that you play around with. Be sure to read up on all your components before throwing together a load, and listen to all manufacturers warnings and recommendations.
 
Never tried H 110 with plated bullets but would be willing to do so.

In my view the powder charge weight is too light and that in combination with the CCI 300 primer could give the results indicated.

The plated bullets might work out well if used with the 27.5 grain charge, primed with large rifle magnum primers, and heavy crimp applied. It will be moving out at a rapid clip and I just don't know what plated bullets do when velocity is ramped up.
 
I have not tested 200gr, but 180gr I can get to over 1900 fps with W296. Way too fast for plated bullets.
 
Thanks for all your replies. I do have CCI #350 (magnum) primers. Any suggestion on bullet brands that have achieved consistent results? I did see Hornady XTPs mentioned. These loads will be for target and not hunting.
 
While they are pricey compared to plated bullets, the 240 XTP's have provided me with exceptional accuracy from all of my .44 mags and .44 Specials.

The problem with using plated bullets at top pressures is that they can over obturate, which causes pressures to skyrocket. It's the same thing Dick Casull and Wayne Baker found would happen when they pushed regular jacketed bullets desiged for the .45 Colt, to .454 velocities and pressures. The pressures spiked quickly, sometimes to too high to be safe levels. That is why Freedom Arms designed their own bullets with ultra strong jackets early on.:)
 
I just don't know what plated bullets do when velocity is ramped up.
Click to expand...

For me, they turn groups into patterns. According to the company, the plating breaks through unevenly when you try to go too fast.
H110/296 with plated bullets is no good for me; hard cast or jacketed bullets only.

I can't believe people are still reducing H110/296 10% when Hodgdon posted the "no more than 3% or get stuck bullets" warning on their loading site and in all their books.
 
jon9 said:
Thanks for all your replies. I do have CCI #350 (magnum) primers. Any suggestion on bullet brands that have achieved consistent results? I did see Hornady XTPs mentioned. These loads will be for target and not hunting.
Click to expand...

240gr XTPs will give you excellent results.
 
I use Remington 210gr. SJHPs. Considerably cheaper than the premium stuff, but I've gotten 1-1/2" groups at 50yd., and the only reason they weren't closer is my 50+ yr. old eyes.

Andy
 
I agree with the above statements. Magnum primer, no reduced loads, heavy crimp, 240gr xtp MAGNUM bullets. H110/W296 is a magnum powder. Load it up and hang on!

If you have been using unique up until this point, you were not getting near the max velocity that the 44 mag can do. the pressure goes way up long before max velocity is reached.

Kevin
 
Bendutro said:
Magnum primers? I've shot over 800 rounds with standard Winchester LP primers and 24 gr of H110 under a 240grain bullet. Nary a single squib, all exited the barrel quite rapidly.
Click to expand...

Read the Win box and I think you'll find the Winchester Large Pistol primers are rated standard and magnum. The OP needs to go to CCI 350 primers.

Pecos
 
The OP needs to use Unique and moderate loads with those plated bullets.

If the OP wants real magnums, cast or jacketed bullets are the solution.

I've been shooting a cast 250 or 265g over 22g W296/H110 with WLP for 27 years so far and no unburned powder or soot.

Plated bullets are not for high velocity, they're for low to moderate speeds, as is Unique.

Please understand, plated bullets and Unique are excellent products, but like all other components, they have strengths and limitations.
 
I had a similar experience with H-110 in a .44 mag 6" Colt Anaconda. In short, H-110 is made for big boomers, not reduced loads. one of my favorite .44 mag loads is a 300g XTP over 20.0g of H-110. Its my "if I won't kill it I shouldn't have pissed it off" load. ;)
 
Not trying to be smart but....................

jon9 said:
Any suggestions on how to solve this problem are appreciated.


*H110 powder -- Lee loading manual recommends 27.5 grains compressed to 28.5 compressed (maximum). For test load I tried 90% of 27.5 = 24.75 grains of H110 powder.

*Primer -- CCI#300

*Case -- Remington

*OAL -- Lee manual recommends 1.61", my OAL is 1.59" .

Thanks for your advice in advance.
Click to expand...

Jon,
I too would like to welcome you to the forum.

The first thing you need is a different manual. One that "talks" about the loads in question. Like the Lyman one. Don't get me wrong, I like the Lee manuals, they are just lacking in some information. In most other manuals you will find that you are told two very important things about H110/W296. One being, NEVER reduce the loads given and ALWAYS use a magnum primer.

Now, physics being what it is, there is no way that less is going to give you more, sorry, doesn't work that way and the detonation issue is a hoax. Call Hodgdon and see what they say about it.

The reason for not reducing H110/W296 is for the very experience that you have had, squibs. EVERY powder has it's pressure range where it works correctly or better if you will. H110/W296 is no different, hence the warnings in the other manuals.

Follow the data from the manuals you use. Don't assume that you know more about the data than the folks that gathered it. There is a minimum there for a reason too.

Again, like Gun 4 Fun and others have stated, ALWAYS use a magnum primer with H110/W296.

Also, there is the Hodgdon data website. Use it. When you find a load you like, find the "print" button and click it. It converts the form into a ".PDF" file before sending it to your printer. You can view it on your computer and not have to waste paper. You can also save the file as a ".PDF". It will have the type of primer they used for the testing, follow that.

Hope this helps and once again, welcome to the forum!
 
What do you guys feel is a good target load for the .44? I have loaded for the .38/.357 and .41 Magnum for a long time but am fairly new to the .44.

I haven't shot any of them yet, but I loaded 50 rounds in new Remington brass with the Hunter Supply "hard cast" 240-grain SWC over 6.0 grains of Bullseye with a CCI 300 standard large pistol primer. Those bullets are not supposed to lead barrels up to 1,600 fps but according to the manuals I have and the data I could find online, the Bullseye load should be right around 900 fps.

What's the preferred powder for a nice practice round in the .44?

Ed
 
Hi Ed;

My long time favorite mild accuracy load for the .44 Magnum is 8.0 grains of Unique under a quality 245-250 grain cast lead semi-wadcutter. This load chronographs 949 fps from my 8 3/8-inch Model 29.

Mild shooting, groups tight, and cuts nice big holes in targets.
 
bmcgilvray said:
Hi Ed;

My long time favorite mild accuracy load for the .44 Magnum is 8.0 grains of Unique under a quality 245-250 grain cast lead semi-wadcutter. This load chronographs 949 fps from my 8 3/8-inch Model 29.

Mild shooting, groups tight, and cuts nice big holes in targets.
Click to expand...
I'll second this, and I'll add 8 grains of 231 as well. Both have always ben very nice target loads in all of my .44 magnums.
 
As the others have said, H110/W296 probably isn't the best powder for lead bullets in the .44 Magnum. When I load lead in Magnum calibers I like HS-6 but Unique, Universal and 2400 will also do a good job. (among other powders in that burn rate range)
 
Jon9,
I have reloaded over 4500 rounds of .44 magnum in three different loads. Approximately, 900 rounds have been using 22.5 grains of H110 with a 240 grain plated bullet and CCI 300 large pistol primers. Approximately, 1300 rounds have been using 24 grains of H110 with the same bullet and same primers and the remaining rounds have been using 10.5 grains of HS6 with a 240 grain hard cast bullet and CCI 300 large pistol primer. All rounds have been reloaded with mixed brass to an OAL of 1.681 and a crimp of .440. With the HS6 powder I have only had two rounds that did not fire because the primer did not ignite but with the H110 have not had any problems.

A word of advise from my reloading experience. Occasionally you will encounter primers that do not ignite. In the past 15 years I have loaded over 100,000 rounds in .38 special, 9mm, .357 magnum, .40 s&w, .45 ACP, .45 long colt and .44 magnum. I have used four different primer manufactures (CCI, Winchester, Remington and PMC primers) in small and large pistol and I have used seven different powders (H110, HS6, HP38, Bullseye, 231, power pistol, and Trail Boss). I have had about two dozen small pistol primers combined in .38 special, 9mm and .40 s&w and about 12 large pistol primers in .45ACP and .44 magnum that did not ignite. I have a couple of friends and acquaintances that are large volume reloaders and they too have had the same issues.
I hope the info helps.
 
One thing I have learned in the past month is this:

Always start with the bullet.

I bought Berry's bullets and the first thing their web site says is :"Not for use with magnum loads."

If you go to Rainier Ballistics web site the first thing it says is: "Enter" but the load data page says to use lead bullet data and lacking that, reduce the jacketed data by 10%. Further, the FAQ page says the maximum velocity should be 1200 - 1250 fps.
Rainier Ballist, Bullets
 
Welcome to the forum!

miamimert-
It sounds like you have lots of good practical experience with several calibers.

You may have had acceptable results from standard primers, but you are the exception to the rule. Hodgdon specifically warns to use magnum primers for H-110. Maybe you have a chrono, and maybe not, you didn't say.
I have been using H-110 for the last 30 years, and I have owned an Oehler 35P for the last 23. I owned a Competion Electronics before that for a few years. I can tell you from firsthand experience that sooner or later you will get a squib load, it's just a matter of time with that powder and standard primers, and when actually checked over the chrono, the magnum primers give much more uniform ballistics.

BTW- you have only used 6 powders. HP-38 and 231 are the exact same powder as are H-110 and 296. Many never knew that until a few years ago when Hodgdon finally took over marketing Winchester powders and started to admitted it.;)
 
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I agree G4F!

Gun 4 Fun said:
miamimert-
You may have had acceptable results from standard primers, but you are the exception to the rule. Hodgdon specifically warns to use magnum primers for H-110. Maybe you have a chrono, and maybe not, you didn't say.

BTW- you have only used 6 powders. HP-38 and 231 are the exact same powder as are H-110 and 296. Many never knew that until a few years ago when Hodgdon finally took over marketing Winchester powders and started to admitted it.;)
Click to expand...

I concur! Exception to the rule and my Beta Shooting Chrony confirms it! :)
 
Your problem is probably that you reduced 10% from the minimum. That's why they list a starting charge.
Try something in the middle, like 28.2 grains and be sure to use a magnum primer with H110.
 
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