Any WWII US Submarine researchers here?

[digi-shots]

It seems that this forum has some of the most knowledgeable folks that I know of.

Is there anyone here that knows a lot about WWII US subs?

In particular, the names of US Submarines that saw service in the ATLANTIC or ETO (Eastern Theater of Operations).

There is quite a bit of info on WWII US subs in the Pacific, but I can't seem to find much regarding the Atlantic.

Thanks! ... inquiring minds want to know

 

[BruceHMX]

Try this link Linda. I was up there last month. Very knowledgable folks and I know they will have what you are looking for.

Submarine Force Library & Museum: Submarine History, Gifts & Memorabilia

 

[digi-shots]

Thanks Bruce!

I'll give it a try. Most of the information I've found on the internet relates only to the Pacific.

There were not that many US subs that operated in the Atlantic during WWII.

 

[Frank237]

NavSource Online: Submarine Photo Archive

My Uncle was in the ETO on the Sablefish. Found quite a few very neat old photos on this site.

FN in MT

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Other than you do not install screen doors on one, I dont know a lot about them. You more than likely already know and done this, is that they have a WWII US Submarine at Baltimores Inner Harbor. I went thru it a few years ago and it was fasinating to me that men went to war in those things!

 

[handejector]

Interesting subject, worthy of in-depth research.......

 

[digi-shots]

Interesting subject, worthy of in-depth research.......

Thanks, Lee...

I was hoping someone would dive in and help...

I don't know a whole lot about them either, kinda too deep for me...

 

[msgdan]

Try this link, its right from the Navy's history department.

Naval History and Heritage Command

Dan

 

[Faulkner]

The best book on the subject, which includes the Atlantic theator of operations, is "Silent Victory " by Clay Blair, Jr.

Also, I believe Samuel Elliot Morison's excellent "Two Ocean Navy" has a chapter on the subject. His more exhaustive, 15 volume "History of United States Naval Operations in WWII" probably covers it in detail, if you can find a copy.

 

[CW Spook]

Theodore Roscoe's "History of US Submarine Operations in WWII" may cover the Atlantic theatre too, but I can't find my old paperback copy.

 

[Capt Steve]

My father spent most of his 30 years in the navy, (Master Chief), riding the "Pig Boats" as the old diesels were known. At age 11 or so I got to go out to sea for a day, the skipper had a son my age and we had the run of the boat. Looked through the periscope as we dove, launched a dummy torpedo and all the burgers and ice cream two kids could eat. Might just have been the best father son day ever. If you ever get the chance to tour a diesel, do it! You won't believe the conditions those guys not only lived but fought in. Not taking anything away from the guys serving on the nukes but those pig boats were unbelievable!

 

[digi-shots]

Thanks for all the comments!

I think there were only a handful of subs that operated during WWII in the Atlantic.

I did have an opportunity to tour the BOWFIN at Pearl Harbour a few years ago... very tight quarters! I can't believe those fellows took turns sleeping in their racks!

 

[bummer]

I can recommend a few books about submariners
The Bravest Man- William Tuohy
War in the Boats-William Ruhe
The Luck of the Draw -C Kenneth Ruiz
The Course of Duty-Don Keith
Unrestricted Warefare-james DeRose

For the axis side I can recommend
Kamikaze Submarine-Yutaka yokota
Iron Coffins- Herbert Werner
Torpedo Junction-Homer Hickam Jr

I have other books that are stored away, but these were upstairs next to the computer

 

[ACP230]

There's a World War II sub at a museum in Manitowoc, WI.
My family toured it several years ago.
They museum has photos and other info on subs made in Manitowoc.
(The sub moored there wasn't made there but is the same type.)

It seems a lot of the Wisconsin-made subs did serve in the Pacific.

 

[Faulkner]

I can recommend a few books about submariners
The Bravest Man- William Tuohy
War in the Boats-William Ruhe
The Luck of the Draw -C Kenneth Ruiz
The Course of Duty-Don Keith
Unrestricted Warefare-james DeRose

For the axis side I can recommend
Kamikaze Submarine-Yutaka yokota
Iron Coffins- Herbert Werner
Torpedo Junction-Homer Hickam Jr

I have other books that are stored away, but these were upstairs next to the computer

All good suggestions, but the absolute best book on the WWII submarine warfare is "Clear the Bridge" by Richard H. O'Kane. As the only commander of the U.S.S. Tang during her 5 war patrols, this real life adventure reads like a Tom Clancy novel.

 

[afriqueart]

I had the chance to go on a sub as training as an ASW operator (P-3 orion, SH-3, TSC and ASWOC). We went out for a daily excursion. This was in the early 80's and I was amazed at how cramped it was. I can only imagine the conditions in a diesel boat in WWII.

I run the ferris wheel at Dollywood a couple of days a week. A few weeks ago a man came up to me wearing a WWII and Korea Vet hat. I talked to him for a few minutes. He was a submariner in the Pacific for his entire career. I wish I could have spent an entire afternoon with him. The stories he can tell, I'm sure!

There aren't too many of those folks left!

 

[digi-shots]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I did contact the Sub Base Museum in Groton, CT and just received an email back from them:

...there were only 6 "Atlantic" based subs, all part of "Squadron 50"... the SHAD, BARB, HERRING, BLACKFISH, GUNNEL, and GURNARD.

I was aware of only 2 (Herring & Gunnel). The GUNNEL was very instrumental in "Operation Torch" (Allied invasion of Vichy-controlled French North Africa).

I'm helping someone research a USN medal bar, complete with gold submarine "Dolfins", numerous ribbons with battle stars and a French Croix de Guerre Medal.

 

[Ron H.]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I did contact the Sub Base Museum in Groton, CT and just received an email back from them:

...there were only 6 "Atlantic" based subs, all part of "Squadron 50"... the SHAD, BARB, HERRING, BLACKFISH, GUNNEL, and GURNARD.

I was aware of only 2 (Herring & Gunnel). The GUNNEL was very instrumental in "Operation Torch" (Allied invasion of Vichy-controlled French North Africa).

I'm helping someone research a USN medal bar, complete with gold submarine "Dolfins", numerous ribbons with battle stars and a French Croix de Guerre Medal.

Ma'am, the French medal doesn't necessarily imply Atlantic service. The French still had numerous possessions and citizens in the Pacific during the War, so the medal could very well be from with an action involving those.

If you know the name of the veteran whose awards these are, the sub museum folks may be able to tell you on which boat(s) the man served. Even if you don't know the man's name, it seems unusual for an American submariner to be awarded the Croix de Guerre, so I'd think the museum folks would have some record of it.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[jlrhiner]

If I can be of assistance in helping id any ribbons, please feel free to IM me.

 

[digi-shots]

Thanks for the added comments and help!

The medal grouping is a little unsual as there are NO Pacific campaign ribbons... I think there's an ETO ribbon on it. It could be the sub later saw service in the Pacific, but the original owner of the medal grouping did not.

I'll see if I can't take some pics of it and post them.

There were 2 subs that were awarded "6 battle stars", so there's a chance we've narrowed it down to one of those two. Unfortunately, the name of the original owner is unknown. With the gold dolphins, it's an officer and not an enlisted man.

 

[Captain Hornet]

I have in my personal library the 18 volume series by Admiral Samuel Elliot Morison along with several other books he wrote. I would be happy to try to find any info you may be looking for . as info on a certin boat. Let me know what you need, mabee I can help. Captain Hornet

 

[jlrhiner]

Digi-shot,
The insignia for the submariner was gold for all ranks until they had completed a succesful war patrol (e.g. when the sub sinks an enemy vessel or accomplishes another mission of equal importance) At that time they were awarded their "War Patrol" dolphins, which were silver.

Well, I dug the book out and it shows enlisted men wearing both the metal insignia and an embroidered one. The cloth one is both dark thread and gold thread, with the war service insignia being silver. (The way I'm reading it, they were real silver with gold and silver stars indicating amount of patrols).

 

[Texas Star]

Although it is possible that the Royal Navy had more subs in the Atlantic than did the US Navy, I'm guessing that the amount of German shipping didn't warrant extensive use of subs in the Atlantic. Japan had to do far more shipping.

Of course, Germany did operate many U-boats, but destroyers were what were used to counter them!

T-Star

 

[B17]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I did contact the Sub Base Museum in Groton, CT and just received an email back from them:

...there were only 6 "Atlantic" based subs, all part of "Squadron 50"... the SHAD, BARB, HERRING, BLACKFISH, GUNNEL, and GURNARD.

I was aware of only 2 (Herring & Gunnel). The GUNNEL was very instrumental in "Operation Torch" (Allied invasion of Vichy-controlled French North Africa).

I'm helping someone research a USN medal bar, complete with gold submarine "Dolfins", numerous ribbons with battle stars and a French Croix de Guerre Medal.

Hi Digi-shots,

I believe there were more than just the boats you listed which operated in the Atlantic.
Squadron 50 was sent to the British Isles after a decision by Roosevelt to have six new fleet subs operate out of Scotland as a political move to support the British during the Battle of the Atlantic. The Sqdn 50 boats also supported Operation Tourch in North Africa.

During 1942-43 especially during the first few months of 1942 when the German U-Boats were operating off our east coast in Operation Drumbeat, quite a number of US subs were sent into the Atlantic to try and stop them. He is a list of assigned boats:

Barracuda
Bass
Bonita
Mackerel
Marlin

R-1
R-5
R-7
S-11
S-12
S-13
S-14
S-15
S-16
S-17
S-18
S-21
S-22
S-24
S-26
S-29
S-30
S-31
S-32
S-33

In October 1942 (North Africa)
Barb
Blackfish
Gunnel
Herring
Shad

In November 1942
Gurnard

In April 1943
Haddo
Hake

I hope this information helps ... Was the person being researched, a sub commander?

Bob

 

[SASABERANGER]

Linda,
You have to remember that we didn't get into the war for two years after it started in Europe.
We were a pretty self sufficient nation at that time and did more exporting than importing and when the war broke out our immediate goal was the defeat of Japan. We did not shift goals until later in the war.
Japan was a major importing nation and very much dependent upon shipping hence the major submarine push out of Pearl Harbor.
We were pretty much alone in the Pacific war as most of the Allied assets were destroyed like ours at Pearl Harbor. Australia and New Zealand were in the thick of things, but with limited naval assets, and the British Pacific Fleet was all but destroyed at the same time as Pearl Harbor .
Since Germany did not import much in the early stages of the war we did not need a large submarine force in the Atlantic to knock out their merchant fleet. So most of that action was left to the Brits and
other allies in the North Atlantic and English Channel area.
After the opening stages of the war almost crippled the merchant fleets of the US and England we concentrated on developing Anti Submarine Warfare assets and tactics. The use of hunter killer submarines really didn't come about until after the end of WWII when we started to knock heads with the Russians.
Since there were very few German merchant ships in the Atlantic we used surface assets to control them and not Atlantic based submarines. There were a few subs in the Atlantic Fleet, but not like the "Submarine Forces Pacific".
I just finished "Lost Subs" that gives some of the WWII history as well as the developmental history of subs in general. Great read and great pictures and art work.
If you would be interested in reading it send me an email to:
[email protected] with your address and I would happily send it your way.
I served with the last diesel boat squadron in the US Navy. We refurbished the entire squadron and then sent most of them to Argentina and Turkey. A few saw action in the Falkland war with the Argentine Navy.
We were disbanded in 1972.
Thom Braxton
SWCA #1474