I had a .308 Garand for several years and always thought that one in .243 would be a sweet, flat shooting beast. Never got around to trying a .243 barrel for it and eventually sold the .308
Anyone else think semi-auto rifle in .243 a good idea?
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Charlie Foxtrott
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The only thing wrong with .243 Winchester.
Is that it tends to be a barrel burner. This can be ameliorated somewhat using H-1000 powder which does not burn as hot as some of the other powders suitable for this round.
115 grain Sierra D-Tacs on top of 46 grains of H-1000 definately gets the job done in my AI.
Is that it tends to be a barrel burner. This can be ameliorated somewhat using H-1000 powder which does not burn as hot as some of the other powders suitable for this round.
115 grain Sierra D-Tacs on top of 46 grains of H-1000 definately gets the job done in my AI.
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I always thought a great combat rifle would be an M-14 scaled down to .243 size. The company I use to work for had a 1500 acre deer hunting lease near Lampasas, TX and most of the guys from work used .243's and the most popular rifle was a Browning lever action. I once saw a turkey running at 150 yards and the guy standing next to me made it explode with his BLR .243 and almost everyone I've ever known who used a .243 was a really good shot!
My first centerfire rifle was an Interarms Mk X in .243 Win. It was a great rifle for mule deer out to about 350-400 yards and white tail deer and antelope out to about 450-500 yards. Mine also shot sub MOA 5 shot groups. My dad had a Rem 700 in .243 Win and and we would shoot head to on prairie dogs out to about 400 yards with 70 grain bullets loaded to about 3600 fps.
It's one of the few rifles I've sold. I don't recall why I let myself be talked out of it, but I've always regretted it.
The .280 British was the original cartridge that the FN FAL / L1A1 was originally developed around. It was an intermediate power round, developed for both optimum terminal ballistics using an FMJ bullet, and reduced recoil to facilitate controllable fire in a select fire assault rifle.
However, the US military held a lot of sway in the post WWII arena. The US ordinance folks first insisted that the cartridge be able to be manufactured to the maximum extent possible with existing tooling. In response the British modified the round to use the same head diameter and base dimensions as the .30-06 and called it the .280/30.
The .280/30 was also rejected by the US as what the fossils in charge really wanted was a full power battle rifle cartridge, one that was slightly shorter to provide greater reliability in a select fire battle rifle. They totally missed the lessons learned in WWII that:
1. Combat most often occurred at ranges around 100 yards and rarely ever occured at ranges greater than 300 yards, making a full power round unnecessary; and
2. Controllable fire in a reasonable weight rifle (as opposed to something like the BAR) required a lower recoil intermediate power round.
The end result was the 7.62x51 NATO, with .30-06 (of the time) performance in a half inch shorter case. The FAL / L1A1 had to be redesigned to accomodate the larger round and was never really practical to use in full auto mode due to difficulty in controlling the recoil. The M14 suffered the same problem and was rarely issued, let alone used with the full auto sear and selector installed.
To add insult to injury, by the time the 7.62x51 NATO round was adopted and forced down NATO country throats by the US, the US was already developing an intermediate power .22 caliber cartridge and exploring a lighter weight assault rifle to fire it.
The original 5.56x45 NATO, 55 gr M193 round wasn't a bad round, all things considered (I liked it in the issued M16A1), but the things that made it effective were neutered first in the heavier and slower 62 gr SS109 rounds used in M855 ammo, and then neutered even further in the 14.7" M4 barrel, reducing the range at which it would tumble and fragment from around 200 meters with the M16/M193 combo to around 50 meters in the M4/M855 combo.
The ultimate irony is that 63 years after sticking NATO with the 7.62x51, the US is now exploring a more effective round, and candidates like the 6.8 SPC, and 6.5 Grendel offer intermediate performance similar to the original .280 British:
.280 British, 140 gr FMJ, .284" diameter bullet at 2,550 fps.
6.5 Grendel, 120 gr FMJ, .264" diameter bullet at 2,700 fps.
6.8 SPC, 115 gr FMJ, .277" diameter bullet at 2,575 fps,
The British selected the .276" land diameter/.284" groove diameter bullet very intentionally after exploring the effects of Hague Convention compliant FMJ bullets yawing, tumbling and fragmenting after impact. They found the effect was maximized with the .284" groove diameter bullet.
Many people think that the tumbling bullet thing came along with the development and adoption of the 5.56mm NATO, but in fact the US Ordinance boards used it as a justification to replace the .45-70 when they introduced the .30 US (.30-40 Krag) round in the M1892 Springfield.
The .243 is arguably a bit much for an intermediate round, but it's an excellent dual purpose varmint and medium game round with the standard 1-10" twist barrel. 85 to 100 gr spire points are available with decent BCs and good point blank ranges. Lighter bullets from 75 down to 55 grains make excellent varmint rounds.
However, in a faster 1-7" or 1-8 twist barrel the newer, heavier VLD bullets like the 115 gr VLD turn the .243 Win into an excellent long range cartridge. It can launch a 115 gr Berger VLD at 2800 fps and it'll stay supersonic to 1345 yards. At 1000 yards it drops 30 1/2 MOA from a 100 yard zero and only drifts 7.5 MOA in a full value 10 kt cross wind.
In comparison a 6.5 Creedmoor. 140 gr ELD at 2710 fps drops 30 MOA and drift 6 1/2 MOA at the same 1000 yard range in the same wind.
The 6mm Creedmoor will launch a 108 gr Berger at 2960 fps, staying supersonic to just over 1400 yards and dropping 27 MOA at 1000 yards with 7 MOA of drift.
The .243 win launches the same 108 gr bullet slightly slower at 2890 fps, it'll still stay supersonic to 1375 yards and drop 28 3/4 MOA at 1000 yards with only 7 1/2 MOA of drift.
In short it's not the latest and greatest long range bullet but with the right twist in the barrel it will still give you superb long range performance and gives up very little to the 6 CM and 6.5 CM.
guessing it can use mags for .308 ????????????????????????
the .243 is a necked down .308 so ...................... P-mags 10 and 25 .308
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The .243 will work just fine in a .308 magazine, as will the 7mm-08.
However, Remington marked their Rem 788 magazines with specific cartridge roll marks and gave them different part numbers to prevent someone from shooting the wrong cartridge in a rifle. It's a liability thing because they marked the magazine.
I recall walking into Jack First, back when it was an actual gun shop to buy a spare magazine for my son's 788 in .243. They didn't have a .243 magazine but had a 7mm-08 magazine and a few .308 magazines that would work fine. However, they would not sell any of them to me as I asked for a .243 magazine. I went back a week or two later, noted someone else working the parts counter and asked for a .308 Rem 788 magazine and finally got it.
CZ has a similar thing the same mag for the 452 is good for the .22mag and .17hmr.
IIRC they are marked for both......?????
IIRC they are marked for both......?????
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Well as the .243 is in the .308 family tree it has excellent parentage. Any rifle it is in is a good thing AFAIC!-
ancient-one
US Veteran
I don't remember the year but I wanted a center fire rifle for coyotes and deer. Being short on money I bypassed the more expensive guns and bought a Mossberg 800 in .243 caliber.
It is not fancy but the accuracy is good. My first and only deer was a ten pointer that hog dressed 147 pounds. My bullet was either a Winchester or Remington 100 gr. Soft Point and when we opened the deer the lungs
had for all purpose exploded and a section of the heart was gone.
It was deadly on coyotes and fun to shoot. Mossberg gave you a really good gun for the money.
I reloaded clear down to the 60 gr. hollow point which was not as accurate as a little heavier bullet and was easily effected by the wind. The 70-80 gr. bullet was the best for varmints. The bullet selection for the .243 is much better now.
It is not fancy but the accuracy is good. My first and only deer was a ten pointer that hog dressed 147 pounds. My bullet was either a Winchester or Remington 100 gr. Soft Point and when we opened the deer the lungs
had for all purpose exploded and a section of the heart was gone.
It was deadly on coyotes and fun to shoot. Mossberg gave you a really good gun for the money.
I reloaded clear down to the 60 gr. hollow point which was not as accurate as a little heavier bullet and was easily effected by the wind. The 70-80 gr. bullet was the best for varmints. The bullet selection for the .243 is much better now.
Gene L
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Plus the recoil in full auto. It would have been great in a semi-auto platform for a military round, not for a handheld auto capablenmilitary rifle. I've never seen one fired auto, but would like to' I suspect control problems.
Personally, I don't like hunting semi rifles in auto. I don't see a need for them. I had a friend who had a Remington 742 in .06 because he was left handed and couldn't work a bolt gun. Killed a lot of deer, too. But the 742 isn't a great gun when fired a lot and I doubt the accuracy of the 742.
The .243 is a very accurate round but it's not without recoil. I've had several bolt guns in .243, but unless things have changed a lot in the new platforms, I don't see compromising accuracy potential for semi fire. It's basically a hunting/sporting round.
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LVSteve
Member
For sure I wouldn't rate the accuracy of a 742 compared to a properly set up AR10 platform. ARs give up very little accuracy to commercial bolt guns these days. Specially built target/sniping bolt guns are another matter, of course.
243 is a great multi purpose round. Varmints to smaller deer. Just my opinion and I am aware a lot of folks disagree believing that the 243 is suitable for large deer, meaning trophy sized mule deer bucks. For my taste it is a bit light for the bugger bodied bucks of trophy size.
I am not a fan of lugging an AR platform gun around the woods. Too heavy and I have no practical use for the semi automatic operation.
All that said, The OP’s gun is a gem and I would not hesitate to use it on coyotes, Rock Chucks or some long range target shooting.
I am not a fan of lugging an AR platform gun around the woods. Too heavy and I have no practical use for the semi automatic operation.
All that said, The OP’s gun is a gem and I would not hesitate to use it on coyotes, Rock Chucks or some long range target shooting.
hi folks,
just for your information, browning makes a BAR in 243, semi auto. be safe....dan
just for your information, browning makes a BAR in 243, semi auto. be safe....dan
Valmet
Member
IMO 243 Win is one of the greatest cartridges of all time. Mild recoil, flat shooting, variety of loads/bullet selection. Can’t speak to the semi-auto aspect as I have a bolt-gun, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t be fine. I think the 60+ year availability of if I’m bolt-actions overshadows the limited availability in a semi when it comes to popularity.
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