Anyone know what ths is ?

[jcbrew]

A friend asked me if I knew what a flat nosed cartridge was, I told him probably a wad cutter, then he showed up with this, it is a 38 Special, the bullet is steel, the headstamp is WCC 42, I told him that was Winchester Centerfire Cartridge, 1942, he said they found "a few boxes" of them in his dads stuff. My wag is due to the war, cartridges may have been made from steel to save lead and copper.

 

[Yorkie Man]

That or the steel complied with the non expanding bullet requirement of the Geneva Convention. It looks like something you could fire from inside an airplane to break the canopy if you couldn't open it to parachute to safety.

 

[murphydog]

WCC = Winchester Cartridge Company, you have the date on the headstamp correct.

I have never seen a round like this before; if you had told me your friend had one example I would have said it was a reload, but several boxes, all with the same headstamp? Someone here probably knows.

 

[texmex]

The only thing I have seen that looked like that was an industrial cartridge. There were tools that used a cartridge to hammer a stud into concrete. Winchester still makes an 8 Gauge cartridge for a tool that is used on a kiln, I think to bust up slag.
"Cartridge based concrete anchoring and steel anchoring systems have been devised for firearms used as tools, such as developed by Hilti and Ramset with their so-called powder-actuated tools. Typical calibers range from .22 cal up to 9 mm for the cartridges, which propel anchors and nails into concrete, steel, and other materials. Developed in World War II to temporarily repair ship damage quickly in the case of hull breach, this technology is today commonly used in construction and manufacturing to join materials to hard substrates such as steel and concrete."

 

[Otreb]

Looks like a shopworn or dirty snake load. The magnet would be attracted to the steel shot inside the plastic 'shell'.

 

[Continental Op]

This is a wild guess, but to me it looks like a round designed to deflate tires during a car chase. It would cut a .38 caliber hole in a sidewall pretty easily and let a lot of air out fast. I know the German police had such a round at one point, but I believe it was 9mm.

 

[breakerofwind]

Yep.......

 

[jcbrew]

Thanks all, never thought about industrial, and I have used the .22 cal nail guns, but none had a "bullet" in them. Otreb, not plastic, I tried to scratch it with a knife to see if it was lead or soft, and it is steel.

 

[dkp9782]

Do we really think that would engage the rifling without deformity? It looks bore diameter. At best it would stick in the bore, at worst it would split the barrel. Steel projectile in steel rifled bore? I hope not!

 

[Mcwsky09]

Doesn't answer your question but quote a collection of interesting ammo on a thread from another forum here - The crazy specialty ammo box - AR15.Com Archive

 

[Bastogne71]

It's an igniter caliber 38 for a M3 frangible grenade. The Grenade was a glass bottle filled with thickened gasoline. In use, you pulled the pin and threw it at a hard target. On impact, the glass broke and released a safety strap and the cartridge fired igniting the gas. I suspect the "bullet" is a slintered pyrotechnic (magnesium?) that enhanced the flash to insure good ignition. It was one of the stopgap measures taken in 1942 to provide anything that could be issued immediately until better weapons could be put in production.

 

[gwpercle]

Yeah, carrying around a glass bottle of thickened gasoline doesn't sound like a great idea. Flame thrower was much better!
Gary

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Being a 38Spl cartridge collector I've never seen a cartridge like this. A photo of the box would help with identification. It would also help to know if all the cartridges use the same brass cases with the same headstamps.

Off-hand I'd say it is some type of specialized tool cartridge similar to a cable cutter cartridge. There's always a possibility that they're hand made novelity item.

 

[gregintenn]

I'd also like to see the box it came in.

 

[30-30remchester]

I have a cartridge just like this in my 38 Special cartridge collection. Not knowing what it was I asked the International Ammunition Association. Their answer was that they were used in the military. According to these experts, and they are a sharp bunch of guys, that this was used in a certain type of bomb. Once dropped at a certain elevation the cartridge detonated inside the bomb to activate the bomb. I will have to look for my old post on the IAA and get an exact name and date.

 

[30-30remchester]

Since my earlier post I checked the IAA historic files. These cartridges were discussed often. These were used to activate a cluster bomb. Cluster bombs were housed in a large bomb hollow tubes. The tubes were filled with smaller bombs and released as a large single bomb. At a designated time a "gun" inside or on the outside, depending on which bomb was used, was discharged using one of these cartridges loaded with as steel bullet. These steel bullets cut a cable thus releasing the smaller bombs. This is according to the experts on the IAA forum which are some of the most knowledgeable people I have ever talked to concerning cartridges.

I would sure like to see the boxes that these cartridges came in.

 

[Bruce51]

Thank you!

That is some great information!

A specialty cartridge for sure!

30-30remchester you are the best!

BLM

 

[jcbrew]

Thank you 30-30remchester, I will pass this info on to my friend. I asked him for a pic, he said they had sold at the estate auction last month, but they were just plain brown boxes with no markings. They are also selling some 650 guns from the estate at Rock Island Auctions, some were today, his father was an avid collector and hunter.