Anyone Used This Load?

[NiklasP]

Hello!

I have some Nosler Partition 180 grain, .357 bullets coming. They will be used to replicate a Winchester Supreme factory load with same bullet.

Intend to try H110 with them and found loading data in Hodgdon 2006 Basic Reloader's Manual. They give 13,5 grains H110 for 1396 fps and 39.100 CUP in a 10 inch barrel (presume non-vented barrel, such as TC Contender). First approximation is that this load should give me the 1100 to 1200 fps I want from 4,0+ to 6,5 inch barrels of revolvers this load will be used in. Intend to start with 13,0 and 13,3 grain loads and check for velocity, group size and POI relative to a 158 grain load at 1150 to 1400 fps (actual velocities from each of these revolvers for this load).

QUESTIONS: Anyone use/used this load? IF so, what was your experience and what was weight of H110 you settled on, for what velocity, what group size, how much higher does the 180 grain load impact than 158 grainers at similar velocities? Answers based on use of Winchester Supreme load with same bullets are also welcome.

I am looking to establish a small grouping load that is easy to control in heavy revolvers for a few shots at any one time, under field conditions. This would then be prime candidate for single, heavier .357 load for woods and mountain use for coming years, with only a few rounds fired each year. Expect it will be used this season for woods roaming and casual turkey hunting.

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Some relatively extensive Google searches turned up several instances of folks using either the Winchester factory load with Nosler 180 grain Partition bullets or the load listed by Hodgens. All were quite pleased with performance. OKFC05 seems to be only one posting here that uses this load -- thanks again to OKFC05 for bringing this load to my attention.

On a side note, I found it curious that almost ALL of .357 Mag loads listed by Hodgon exceed the nominal standard of 35.000 CUP (that I understood) for this cartridge. One could even wonder it they really should be labeled .357 Maximum, also suggested by Hodgdon's use of 10 inch test barrel.

Niklas

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I haven't loaded that 180gr bullet but I have loaded a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet for the .357 Magnum.

I settled on a charge of 13.6gr W296 (same as H110) with a CCI-550 primer. The AV is 1036 fps from a 4" S&W M686 and good accuracy.

 

[NiklasP]

Thanks ArchAngelCD!

In my Google search for information about experience of others, I found some folks claimng that Hornady 180 grain bullet is softer than Nosler, because of partition in Nosler, hence higher chamber pressures to be expected with Nosler Partition. Donno. Your velocity of 1036 fps from 4,0 inch barrel indicates good likelihood I will get velocity I want (1100-1200 fps from 4,5-6,5 inch barrels.

Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Reading further on various pistol sites, I found answer to one of my questions about the Hodgdon load data for .357 Mag. Specifically, about the chamber pressures listed. Not having loaded for or owned a .357 until recent years, I had totally missed that SAMMI chamber pressure for .357 is for some years now 35.000 CUP, down from 46.000 CUP. The Hodgdon data from 2005 and 2006 are still sticking with the old standard.

I am sure many/most of you already knew about this change ever since it happened. For those that did not, now you too know.

This will have no effect of my plans because these loads are expected to be mostly, if not solely, used in Ruger Blackhawks, which should hardly be affected. Perhaps only a few will be fired from a S&W M60 with 5 inch barrel (with Pachmayr Gripper grips on gun, of course).

Niklas

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I had totally missed that SAMMI chamber pressure for .357 is for some years now 35.000 CUP, down from 46.000 CUP. The Hodgdon data from 2005 and 2006 are still sticking with the old standard.
Niklas

Are you sure the old pressure limits were 46,000 CUP? I thought the old limit was 40,000 CUP.

 

[NiklasP]

Frankly, I am not truly sure of any SAAMI value for .357 Mag max average pressure, not having found any SAAMI documents. I did see both 46.000 CUP and 41.500 PSI as previous SAAMI standards, on Internet searches. Also, Hodgdon's 2005 and 2006 Basic Reloader's Guides give loads for .357 Mag up to 43.200 CUP --Hodgdon is one of the more lawyer-bound companies, so, would be surprised that they were presenting loads giving chamber pressures above some official limit or other.

I do have loading manuals published prior to these 2005 and 2006 ones by Hodgdon and they only give loads with chamber pressures below 35.000. I also see 45.000 CUP in 1995 Speer manual (#12) for .357 Mag loads for shooting steel critters.

Do you have definitive references that clear up this little confusion?

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Hello Folks!!

Did some Googling just now and found following 1993 SAAMI pub.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

This pub can delight and inform you, it can also be wonderful when you cannot sleep.

At bottom of page 11 and top of page 12 are maximum, average CUP values for voluntary use by producers for .357 Mag ammo. The values given for chamber pressure are 45,000 CUP, for bullet weights from 110 grains to 180 grains.

For my interests, this CUP is associated with muzzle velocity of 1400 fps for 180 grain bullets, from 4 inch vented test barrel. SO, Hodgdon's 1396 fps from 10 inch barrel and 39,100 fps is well within SAAMI specs when my Ruger Blackhawks were made, probably same is true for my S&W M60.

Note that adjacent columns in this table show that Average Probable Lot Mean can be up to 46,500 CUP and Maximum Probable Sample Mean can be up to 48,700 CUP -- all thanks to your good friend, Statistics. The 48,700 CUP slightly exceeds the Maximum Average Pressure for 357 Maximum. Nice "margin of safety" that probably should not be taken as license to "load em hot, for sure".

Should I manage to find such a SAAMI document for later years, giving 35,000 CUP, etc. for .357 Mag, I will, of course, post it too.

Enjoy and sleep well!
Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Just to keep the information-confusion flow going, here is table from Handloads.com, in PSI, of course. .357 Mag is listed as 35,00 PSI and .357 Maximum as 40,000 PSI.

SAAMI pressure specs

Gotta quit this for now,
Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Finally found this online article about piezo AND crusher pressures. With data for both in same article!!
Cartridge Pressure Standards

This article appears well researched, with lots of literature references. Here are values given for .357 Mag and Maximum.


Caretridge Piezo Crusher
SAAMI CIP SAAMI
.357 Mag 35 44 45
.357 Max 40 45 48

I feel better informed, and, somehow, still feel the need for an aspirin or two.

Niklas

 

[colt_saa]

I do not use the partitions. I load the Remington SJHP 180 grain projectile over 21 grains of H110 for my 357Max. I get right around 1600 from an 8" barrel.

I think that 1100-1200 from a 4" barrel using 13.5 grains is a bit optimistic.

You will probably hit the 1100+ mark with the 6" barrel.

 

[NiklasP]

Colt_SAA, Thanks for feedback.

Expect revolver most likely to be used hunting is Ruger BH with 6,5 inch barrel. Shorter barreled ones most likely woods carry guns only, so 1000+ fps will should be OK. What is, of course, most critical for hunting is group size, especially for long series of "one-shot" groups from cold barrel. So far, Ruger BH with 6,5 inch barrel is best grouping with various handloads, hopefully even better with the 180 grainers. Have always gotten smallest groups with bullets having longer bearing surface, one reason for 180s.

With muzzle velocity between 1100-1200 i intend to use 90 yard zero, so everything in expected hunting range will be a 6 o'clock hold on area aimed for.

I do find loads listed in other loading manuals giving more than 13,5 grain H-110 for 180s, however, different 180s (Hornady XTP & JTC Sil).

Hoping those bullets arrive soon!
Niklas