The Viking
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 201
- Reaction score
- 49
Anyone tried an Apex barrel out in 9mm 2.0? Did it make a difference? if so how much?
Apex barrel
- Thread starter The Viking
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
SoCalDep
Member
Huge difference with the fitted barrel. I have several and have worked with many people who have Apex barrels in their M&Ps. With my old department’s Federal HST 147gr duty ammo the guns will shoot around 1-1.5” groups at 25 yards with 100% reliability.
Semi-fit only need the hood of the chamber fit ( snuggly ) and can make it your m&p a 1.5" or less shooter the Gun smith fit can make it a 1" or less 5 shot pistol . Not hard to do at home ether . You should buy the tool kit for the fitting . Bottom line is the "gun smith fit " barrel in your m&p will impresses even a skilled CMP bullseye shooter .
I added a gunsmith fit barrel to my wifes 11 year old m&p core along with a apex trigger kit . 3lb 4oz trigger and its been a pistols that has surprised a number of real good shooters with far costly handguns .
I will say decide what you need . I don't need a 1" at 25 yard handgun for defensive carry. My CC handguns are a m&p 4.25 40sw thats a 2.5" shooter at best from a rest But I don't shoot from a rest very often so if size will be larger when running different defensive drills fireing at ar500 8" to 9x15 silhouette with 100% reliable hit at 15 and 25 yards . Same goes for my lw commander in 45 both with open sights .
I added a gunsmith fit barrel to my wifes 11 year old m&p core along with a apex trigger kit . 3lb 4oz trigger and its been a pistols that has surprised a number of real good shooters with far costly handguns .
I will say decide what you need . I don't need a 1" at 25 yard handgun for defensive carry. My CC handguns are a m&p 4.25 40sw thats a 2.5" shooter at best from a rest But I don't shoot from a rest very often so if size will be larger when running different defensive drills fireing at ar500 8" to 9x15 silhouette with 100% reliable hit at 15 and 25 yards . Same goes for my lw commander in 45 both with open sights .
Last edited:
There was an extensive thread on this in the last quarter of 2015 with considerable input from Randy Lee of Apex. There's brief test to see if you might actually benefit from a different barrel.
With an unloaded pistol, remove the recoil spring assembly and take down latch (don't lose the spring). Invert the pistol to install the slide & barrel, put the slide in it's normal position on the frame. Check to make sure the barrel is in it's proper battery position and check for vertical movement at the chamber area. Then do the same for the muzzle. Should be no/minimal vertical movement.
Second step- while carefully watching the chamber area/hood of the barrel for vertical movement, slowly move the slide back like it's recoiling. The slide should move about 5/32-3/16 in before you see vertical movement. If you're seeing fairly noticeable vertical movement in either case, you might benefit from a plus size barrel.
In transition training X00 people to the 1.0 from a TDA pistol, we found trigger manipulation to be the major issue. The 1.0 trigger was designed to be similar to the DA stroke on a revolver. People tend to lose patience and finish up with a hearty yank. Naturally, other issues with fundamentals also exist.
FWIW, I bought a complete slide assembly off GB and had it machined for an RMR. With the dot, I've been able to chase 1 in 25 yard groups from prone with stock barrel. The auld eyes won't let me do anything like that anymore with the original slide assembly.
With an unloaded pistol, remove the recoil spring assembly and take down latch (don't lose the spring). Invert the pistol to install the slide & barrel, put the slide in it's normal position on the frame. Check to make sure the barrel is in it's proper battery position and check for vertical movement at the chamber area. Then do the same for the muzzle. Should be no/minimal vertical movement.
Second step- while carefully watching the chamber area/hood of the barrel for vertical movement, slowly move the slide back like it's recoiling. The slide should move about 5/32-3/16 in before you see vertical movement. If you're seeing fairly noticeable vertical movement in either case, you might benefit from a plus size barrel.
In transition training X00 people to the 1.0 from a TDA pistol, we found trigger manipulation to be the major issue. The 1.0 trigger was designed to be similar to the DA stroke on a revolver. People tend to lose patience and finish up with a hearty yank. Naturally, other issues with fundamentals also exist.
FWIW, I bought a complete slide assembly off GB and had it machined for an RMR. With the dot, I've been able to chase 1 in 25 yard groups from prone with stock barrel. The auld eyes won't let me do anything like that anymore with the original slide assembly.
Last edited:
OP
The Viking
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 201
- Reaction score
- 49
Sorry to have to ask but who is GB?
OP
The Viking
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 201
- Reaction score
- 49
Thanks guys. Information and advice much appreciated.
STORMINORMAN
Member
GB typically is the abbreviation for GunBroker.com...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Need to add to above, run the slide assembly forward to the battery position from full recoil before checking for movement. Also note the "might".
As someone noted above, for a defense tool, you don't really want a tightly fitted match gun. If you happen to have one and it's totally reliable under all typical (for you) conditions, fine. But, you don't want the thing to choke on some dust, pollen or whatever when you're betting your butt on it.
As someone noted above, for a defense tool, you don't really want a tightly fitted match gun. If you happen to have one and it's totally reliable under all typical (for you) conditions, fine. But, you don't want the thing to choke on some dust, pollen or whatever when you're betting your butt on it.
Last edited:
SoCalDep
Member
The M&P is a good gun. The Apex barrel makes it a better gun. Your statements are based on conjecture and assumptions. I know guys that work on rescue helicopters with rotor wash and sand who have run Apex M&Ps with no issues, guys who have put thousands of rounds through M&Ps with Apex barrels without lubrication, and I’ve put a bunch of thousands of rounds through my own Apex fitted M&Ps. I feel they are more reliable than a Glock and with the Apex they truly do reach the “apex” of their ability.
Without the Apex they are good reliable guns that suffer from less than stellar accuracy.
I don’t care what anyone says they can do with “their” M&P… The M&P has lost a lot of Federal contracts and I believe it’s because in sock form it can’t beat Glock accuracy.
Add the Apex and it’s just stupid accurate… and it runs.
Do you need it?
I think that depends on your ability and pocket book more than the attributes of the Apex barrel.
SoCalDep
Member
I’ll add that the most improvement I’ve seen has been in the 4.25” guns. The 4” and 5” guns seem to be pretty consistent with factory barrels. I’ve still seen improvement with the Apex barrels, but out of the box the 4 and 5 inch guns seem pretty nice in my experience. I put an Apex in one of my 5” guns but left the other (tan gun) stock. It shoots really well as is.
I'll have 6000 rds before the summer is over on my apex 4.25" Semi Drop-In 9mm barrel which has had dust/sand/1000 rds before cleaning ect: and it has been 100% reliable.
My 45 and 10mm are a whole different story.
Torn as to whether I'm keeping those two or not.
AlwaysArmed
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 192
- Reaction score
- 203
Well, there goes another $300. I gotta have one.
AA
AA
Many first-generation M&P's had less than stellar accuracy and triggers that were not so great. Apex and other aftermarket companies make a bunch of money correcting those deficiencies.
S&W recognized the deficiencies in the original M&P line and M2.0 guns are substantially better than their predecessors. Nevertheless, M&Ps are not high-end target pistols. The cost to improve current M&P pistols would probably be hard to justify for the vast majority of shooters.
S&W recognized the deficiencies in the original M&P line and M2.0 guns are substantially better than their predecessors. Nevertheless, M&Ps are not high-end target pistols. The cost to improve current M&P pistols would probably be hard to justify for the vast majority of shooters.
If some feel a little looser fit the the gun smith barrel is wanted do to some false concerns then buy the semi fit barrel . Some minor fitting to the hood of the chamber and it fits . and runs reliably . Even a guy with few skills can watch apex vedio on fitting a barrel and manage to make it fit and function reliably . Our M&P core with a early batch of gun smith fit barrels took less than 20 minutes to fit and has real close to 11,000 rounds fired 100% reliably .
Good to know. Yes, it was a generalization and I did specify "tightly fitted match guns" and I've seen those choke in far less trying conditions.
Not our experience with X00 MPB prefix series 40s. Or mine with an MPF serial prefix 9. But tolerance stack can raise it's ugly head. Glock wins a lot of contracts on price. The local Sheriffs Dept. went Glock when they went to semis, price and free duty gear. They didn't last long, currently carrying Sigs.
AMEN!
Last edited:
LVSteve
Member
This makes me wonder if some Federal contracts people are being unnecessarily demanding with their accuracy spec. The phrase "combat accurate" is around for a reason.
May be everyone just needs to do what works for them, and not what everyone on the errornet says they should do.
There are some great threads here, and on other forums also, but what people seem to forget, myself included, is that the OP is asking our opinions and sometimes instead of giving our opinions we are telling them he should do what we do, which may not work for someone else.
In the end, in just about every one of these threads I think we can all come to the conclusion that you have to try things out for yourself, because there is no other way you're going to know if something is going to work for you.
Of course that being said, there's also nothing wrong with trying to get opinions on others experience. This can set the groundwork for what you may want to do in whatever your situation may be.
Sometimes these forums make me feel like I'm walking into a gun shop and asking for a particular item only to have the guy on the other side of the counter tell me no you don't want that, this is what you really want!
There are some great threads here, and on other forums also, but what people seem to forget, myself included, is that the OP is asking our opinions and sometimes instead of giving our opinions we are telling them he should do what we do, which may not work for someone else.
In the end, in just about every one of these threads I think we can all come to the conclusion that you have to try things out for yourself, because there is no other way you're going to know if something is going to work for you.
Of course that being said, there's also nothing wrong with trying to get opinions on others experience. This can set the groundwork for what you may want to do in whatever your situation may be.
Sometimes these forums make me feel like I'm walking into a gun shop and asking for a particular item only to have the guy on the other side of the counter tell me no you don't want that, this is what you really want!
Last edited:
SoCalDep
Member
I’ve heard the .40’s don’t have the accuracy issues the 9s do… I picked up a .40 CORE a while ago but haven’t shot it yet as other priorities are there and I want to give it some solid attention.
I’ve also heard the 4” and 5” guns tend to shoot very well and accuracy issues are primarily with the 4.25” 9mm guns. I have a tan 5” that is a great shooter at 25yds. It has the factory barrel. I still bet an Apex would improve it some but it’s acceptable and I want it black.
Price is certainly a thing with some contracts but with federal agencies and large local agencies it’s more about what meets the standards set, and as someone mentioned, I think some agencies set accuracy standards to the point that the M&P simply can’t compete in factory configuration. It pains me, because I truly believe… whether shooting them or not (right now I’m shooting 1911s and Staccatos) or whether I was representing a 10,000 armed agency or now that I’m retired and can say what I want… the M&P is a phenomenal pistol design. The execution of that design has been… to be euphemistic… inconsistent.
The good thing is that the “inconsistencies” tend to either be minor and correctable (not as accurate as it could be but not horrible, difficulty or impossibility using the right-side slide release) or very easily identified (trigger tail and extractor issues in earlier M&P9s… and still easily fixed.
S&W also had very real accuracy issues in the earlier model . My wife has an early CORE 4.25 9mm and groups fired from a rest did look more like a load of 12ga 00 buck fired at 15 yards for a cylinder bore shotgun . S&W CS was no help on a trip home . That pistol needed help and at the time the few barrels out there were drop in .
I read an article on the future APEX barrel soon to be released so I placed an ordered a gun smith fit barrel to my wife's core . Now I'm sure I could have fit the barrel a little tighter as I had zero zero issues with it but it is also proven to reliable . My wife used it back then as a match pistol in our local laid back uspsa matches with other ladys . We did not clean the pistol for almost 1000 rounds after the barrel change including a 400 round reproofing at home and accuracy on a good day for me with is still 1.20 average from a rest with a 2moa green dot from this 68 year old man .
Perhaps some concerns about reliability are personal head game's for a couple guys here and unless you find a need so try one for your self .
I will say the M&P 40sw pistols have very good defensive accuracy with loads of 150gr to 180gr and group sizes in the 2" range at least with my 12 year old 4.25 and 2.0 5".
I read an article on the future APEX barrel soon to be released so I placed an ordered a gun smith fit barrel to my wife's core . Now I'm sure I could have fit the barrel a little tighter as I had zero zero issues with it but it is also proven to reliable . My wife used it back then as a match pistol in our local laid back uspsa matches with other ladys . We did not clean the pistol for almost 1000 rounds after the barrel change including a 400 round reproofing at home and accuracy on a good day for me with is still 1.20 average from a rest with a 2moa green dot from this 68 year old man .
Perhaps some concerns about reliability are personal head game's for a couple guys here and unless you find a need so try one for your self .
I will say the M&P 40sw pistols have very good defensive accuracy with loads of 150gr to 180gr and group sizes in the 2" range at least with my 12 year old 4.25 and 2.0 5".
Last edited:
