Appropriate Response To Being Threatened With A Taser

[Smoke]

Before I tell this story I want to clarify two points.

First, the person I’m writing about is a licensed security officer who was responding to a report of a trespasser on client property. I won’t say he had a “duty” to respond like the police would but it was part of his job description and long story short he had to be there.

Second client policy is that for trespassers security is not allowed to call the police unless the trespasser is causing a disturbance or refusing to leave. So my coworker didn’t really have the option of letting the police handle it.

What happened, My coworker arrives in the area where the trespasser was last seen and goes looking, he finds the guy (homeless vagrant) walking around in a storage yard owned by the client and approaches to ask him to leave.

As he approaches the homeless guy threatens him with a taser. The coworker states he put his hand on the butt of his gun and told the trespasser it (trying to tase him) would be the stupidest thing he ever did. At that point the trespasser put the taser away (co worker isn’t a cop and has no legal authority to confiscate the taser) and left.

Any time there is a deadly force incident the company requires the officer to justify his actions, coworker’s justification was that while a taser is generally considered non lethal, if tased he would be defenseless and unable to stop the guy from either taking his gun or doing further injury to him and that once the taser was deployed there wouldn’t be anything to stop the trespasser from continuing to shock him.

The company agreed with his assessment and closed the matter.

I agree with his assessment as well and would absolutely regard a taser as a deadly threat.

So, my question is not necessarily what would you have done in this situation but would you also regard a taser as a deadly threat

 

[dougb1946]

Tasers have caused deaths.

 

[The Big D]

Quick research shows tasers are not illegal, per se, in Colorado. However, it is a criminal offense to use one whilst committing a (another) crime. Presuming trespassing is illegal in CO, I believe your coworker should have notified the police.

That said, his actions were otherwise appropriate.

Be safe.

 

[SgtLumpy]

With all due respect, Smoke...

The more and more I read about the security company you work for, the more and more I think they are hanging you guys out to dry to protect themselves.

"Not allowed to call the police". Um, I'm "allowed" to call the police any time I feel the need. What possible rationale could your company have for having such a rule that makes any kind of sense in terms of safety for you and your co-workers.

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work. And it all appears to be coming from some kind of company policy about escalating force (and increasing the company liability).

One of you guys is going to get hurt or killed some day because you're afraid of violating some company policy. Or you're going to respond appropriately and the company will respond with "He violated policy, he's fired, we won't defend him".


Sgt Lumpy

 

[25elk]

Notifying the police was against company policy and would most likely have cost him his job. I believe he did exactly what was required and the client agreed. All's well that ends well. A taser has been lethal in a number of documented cases and I certainly wouldn't want to find out if it would be lethal on me.

 

[Ohsheepdog]

Good call on your friend's part & his company's decision. Are you sure it was a Taser and not a Stun gun? Tasers fire probes with wires that conduct electricity to completely disable someone while it's fired, and stun guns require the user to touch someone to have an effect and only cause localized pain. Most states differentiate between the two.

Sent from somewhere between the Ohio territory and the neutral zone.

 

[Smoke]

I believe your coworker should have notified the police.

Not an option

Second client policy is that for trespassers security is not allowed to call the police unless the trespasser is causing a disturbance or refusing to leave. So my coworker didn’t really have the option of letting the police handle it.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Once a person has been disabled, they are good as dead, so a so-called non-lethal device like a taser is indeed deadly. Other than your co-workers choice of words, I think his overall response was fine. Nobody got hurt, and homeless vagrants probably get assaulted often so that guy might have been in fear himself, though he was trespassing. As stated above, anybody has the right to call the local LE agency. Incidents should be reported A.S.A.P., for ones own protection.

If criminal behavior was more dangerous to the criminal, perhaps there would be less of it and fewer criminals.

 

[Hock]

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work. And it all appears to be coming from some kind of company policy about escalating force (and increasing the company liability).

SgtLumpy,

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. So what if he used a "movie line" while placing his hand on his firearm. He was communicating but verbally and visually that he had intention on using deadly force if the trespasser continued to aggressively approach him with the taser. I firmly believe and support that you do anything reasonable to end a confrontation before it escalates to any use of force. That can be down through logical reasoning, emotional reasoning, or intimidation. I prefer the first two but a combination of any two or even all three can keep you out of a fight before it physically harmful. The person Smoke is talking about used logical reason by using his words and intimidation by placing his hand on his weapon. I think he did a fantastic and I believe anytime you can end a potentially dangerous situation without physical harm you have done a fantastic job.

 

[Smoke]

With all due respect, Smoke...

The more and more I read about the security company you work for, the more and more I think they are hanging you guys out to dry to protect themselves.

You aren't telling me anything I don't already know.

"Not allowed to call the police". Um, I'm "allowed" to call the police any time I feel the need. What possible rationale could your company have for having such a rule that makes any kind of sense in terms of safety for you and your co-workers.

Not company policy client policy and it only applies to tresspassers. If there were another situation say a client building were broken into or someone stole copper from a clent facilty then of course we'd call the police but they don't want us calling the cops every time we deal with a random tresspasser

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work.

I'm not evaluating his response ,as such, I'm just telling you factually what he did. I wouldn't have said that but he did.

One of you guys is going to get hurt or killed some day because you're afraid of violating some company policy. Or you're going to respond appropriately and the company will respond with "He violated policy, he's fired, we won't defend him".


Sgt Lumpy

Again you're not telling me anything I don't know.

Now you know why I have no problem with the fact that my company stuck me on a remote post out on the East edge of town where I can go weeks with out seeing a client employee much less a client customer or tresspasser or anything like that.

Our client requires that all visitors be logged in and out, the sheet for doing so has fifteen spaces, we have some sites that go through three or four of those sheets every day. I go through maybe one a month and sometime only then because I close it out at the end of every month

 

[Smoke]

Are you sure it was a Taser and not a Stun gun? Tasers fire probes with wires that conduct electricity to completely disable someone while it's fired, and stun guns require the user to touch someone to have an effect and only cause localized pain. Most states differentiate between the two.

Incident report said taser so I said taser

 

[Smoke]

Client policy on calling police.

Yes I am aware that it sucks, I am also aware that I’m not going to get a better security gig in Colorado Springs than the one I have now.

I’m on a city contract so I get 50% above scale, the work is steady and should my employer ever lose this contract the only thing that will change in my world is the uniform I wear to work and even that will probably be only the patches on the uniform.

Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves

 

[ColbyBruce]

"Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves"

These words are going to take up a lot of space on a headstone, more than a name, DOB, DOD. Call the law.

 

[jimmyj]

Yes I am aware that it sucks, I am also aware that I’m not going to get a better security gig in Colorado Springs than the one I have now.

I’m on a city contract so I get 50% above scale, the work is steady and should my employer ever lose this contract the only thing that will change in my world is the uniform I wear to work and even that will probably be only the patches on the uniform.

Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves

The shoulder patches reminds me of a agency I worked for that went though Police Chiefs quite often. Every new Chief had to have his own designed shoulder patch for the "Troops". I often wondered if the money spent for different shoulder patches could been put to better use ?

 

[Smoke]

The shoulder patches reminds me of a agency I worked for that went though Police Chiefs quite often. Every new Chief had to have his own designed shoulder patch for the "Troops". I often wondered if the money spent for different shoulder patches could been put to better use ?

The city of Colorado Springs has specific guidelines for security uniforms.

They can’t be the same color as CSPD.

They have to say “Private Security” plainly visible on them.

They must to have the company name plainly visible on them.

And the word “Police” cannot appear in any context on the uniform. So no “Special police” patches.

You also have to be able to read the words Private Security on our vehicles (which can not be Crown Vics) from 60 feet

 

[Smoke]

"Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves"

These words are going to take up a lot of space on a headstone, more than a name, DOB, DOD. Call the law.

First Picture is where I work second is the biggest threat I've run into in 4 years out there ETA the second picture is a litter of fox kits

 

[millisec]

Taser, stun gun whatever... a significant number of people have been killed by them (aside from the whole aspect of being incapacitated if not dead). I have had some heart issues in my time and suspect a taser would probably kill me. Likewise if someone did that to me I would view it as a deadly weapon, fear for my life and take appropriate action. That's me speaking as a citizen only constrained by law and not by any employer policies.

 

[Maze 686]

Tasers are not, "not lethal " . They are, "less lethal ".
Any time you are armed know that everytime less lethal instruments are used is not justification to use deadly force to engage the threat.

You need to take into consideration if backup officers can help, is there threats of death, can you create distance or a barrier to protect yourself. One thing is to use a vehicle to protect yourself when you first make contact.
Everybody went home safe, learn from it.

 

[islamoradamark]

not call the police, u were threatened with a weapon and he was trespassing. OH its ok he was just smoking to much weed and got lost in COLorado

 

[SgtLumpy]

Take all of the employment constraints out of it. Take the pvt security component out of it. Then ask yourself -

What would I/should I do when threatened by a person with a taser.

I'll start with discounting the two extremes -
- Shoot him
- Stand there facing him, issuing verbal "movie line" threats

Both of those are the wrong approach in any self defense doctrine I can think of.

MOVE. Get out of range of the threat. That should always be the first move.

Then fill in the intermediate steps with whatever you feel is appropriate.


Now, if you care to, consider the pvt security/client component. There should never be a "company rule" that violates my personal safety, common sense or the commonly held doctrines of self defense. An employer should not be asking me to "take a bullet" (or get tazed etc) or doing anything else that clearly violates my personal safety, simply for their liability or public image reasons. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers, that's fine. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers who threathen me with a taser, that's not fine. If you don't want me to present my weapon when threatened with a taser, that's not fine.


Sgt Lumpy