AR 15 with iron sights at 100 yards...question

[mbliss57]

I shot he M16 in the Army in the late 1970s. Peep sights of course. I qualified as Expert. I haven't shot one since leaving the Army.
A friend of my wife sent her a pic of her 1st outing with an iron sight Ar15.
She was using a full size upper torso paper target and put 5 rounds on the paper out of 5 shots. 4 in the 9 ring (no grouping) and 1 in 8 ring.
Off hand standing. Assuming it was not a 1st timer, what kind of accuracy can one get at 100 yards off hand? Was this good, average or poor? In the Army we just shot pop up targets so we never knew where we hit.. just that we did.

Thanks for honest answers from experienced shooters...

 

[JaPes]

IMO, you'll get lots of different opinions. My stance is that the primary function of an AR-15 is combat effective shot placement when using an AR-15 equipped with the lowest common denominator parts and accessories. 5/5 on a man size paper silhouette target, 100 yards, using iron sights, shooting standing off hand is good shooting.

Anything above and beyond combat effectiveness is icing on the cake. We like to endlessly discuss the icing and sometimes forget about the cake.

 

[Doubless]

And I would offer than five out of five on a man sized target is marginal at best. With a good set of peep sights, the average AR and a decent shooter should be able to put five in the nine ring at 100, and a 2" group should be not all that hard.

My twins both have DPMS Oracles, and those rifles will cut holes @ 100with decent handloads...

 

[cyphertext]

And I would offer than five out of five on a man sized target is marginal at best. With a good set of peep sights, the average AR and a decent shooter should be able to put five in the nine ring at 100, and a 2" group should be not all that hard.

My twins both have DPMS Oracles, and those rifles will cut holes @ 100with decent handloads...

Are you saying 2 MOA, standing, shooting offhand? If so, that is well above average shooting.

I can see that from a bench, or from prone off a bag... but not the norm for standing, offhand unsupported.

 

[A10]

Used to be able to keep most shots on a beer can at 200 paces....not so sure about now. I can keep a 3" group at 100 with the iron sights on my grandsons 1917 .Eddystone

 

[cyphertext]

She was using a full size upper torso paper target and put 5 rounds on the paper out of 5 shots. 4 in the 9 ring (no grouping) and 1 in 8 ring.
Off hand standing. Assuming it was not a 1st timer, what kind of accuracy can one get at 100 yards off hand? Was this good, average or poor? In the Army we just shot pop up targets so we never knew where we hit.. just that we did.

Thanks for honest answers from experienced shooters...

For a first timer, I don't think that is bad at all. I am assuming that she also did not use a sling for support.

 

[ironhead7544]

Not sure what target was used but if it was a B27 then any hit in the 8 ring or better is considered effective. Good for a new person standing unsupported.

I have tested many AR15 rifles and the majority with standard barrels and 55 gr military ammo will group about a little more than MOA from a rest.

 

[CrustyShellback]

Are you saying 2 MOA, standing, shooting offhand? If so, that is well above average shooting.

I would give your left nut, to shoot that well!

 

[O2Guy]

Many new shooters do well the first time. They haven't developed any bad habits yet.

I sure wouldn't want that lady upset at me.

 

[gunny4053]

Not cloverleaf accuracy, but that's minute of bad guy all day.

 

[MichiganScott]

The 10-ring on a NRA SR-1 target (200 yard reduced) for high power competition is 3.35". Not saying it's easy, but I've seen enough cleans shot to know it's common.

 

[cyphertext]

The 10-ring on a NRA SR-1 target (200 yard reduced) for high power competition is 3.35". Not saying it's easy, but I've seen enough cleans shot to know it's common.

I'm going to disagree with it being "common". It may be common in the world of NRA high power competitors who handload, using shooting jackets and slings, etc., but NRA high power shooters are a very small number of "shooters" overall.

I would bet that, on any given day at a public range, you could hang that NRA SR-1, and at 100 yards, the majority of shooters there wouldn't hit the 10 ring from a standing, unsupported position with open sights.

 

[TheMaineEvent]

I have to agree. I'm a pretty good shot, and that kind of shooting would require me to be sitting down and use a bench rest. Even then, I think it would be tough given most of use cheap(er) rounds to plink with and not match grade ammo.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

mbliss57:

I also qualified "Expert" with the M-16 in the Army in the mid-70s. I think your wife's friend, whether shooting unsupported or supported is shooting very well, indeed. I remember one of our Drill Sergeants who was a Viet Nam veteran, telling us how different combat marksmanship was from peacetime shooting on the rifle range. His view was that if you could score a hit on your enemy anywhere on his/her body, then you were doing well. He told us that his experience was that you rarely had a clear image of your target, and that a lot of firing was done in the general area of suspected enemy activity and presence - ie "reconnaissance by fire". I remember being very surprised when he told us that beyond 200m we should aim at the head/neck area of our target, and that we would be lucky to hit him/her in the regions of the lower abdomen or legs.

I recently purchased my first AR and installed a 3-12X scope (its a flat-top). I can shoot very well with the scope, and I've added a set of back-up iron sights as well. I think I'd be lucky to accurately engage targets much past 25m with the iron sights.

Regards,

Dave

 

[MichiganScott]

I'm going to disagree with it being "common". It may be common in the world of NRA high power competitors who handload, using shooting jackets and slings, etc., but NRA high power shooters are a very small number of "shooters" overall.

I would bet that, on any given day at a public range, you could hang that NRA SR-1, and at 100 yards, the majority of shooters there wouldn't hit the 10 ring from a standing, unsupported position with open sights.

I use the term common as opposed to accidental. And I do hang around with a bunch of NRA High Power shooters.

Slings aren't allowed in offhand, and I'd bet there are a bunch on non-high power shooters on these forums that handload match grade ammunition.

 

[mbliss57]

Thanks. This lady (Tracy) is from my wife's shoot group "A Girl and a Gun" And was at a 1 day training "seminar" on different types of learning experiences..semi auto rifles, bowling pins, IDPA scenarios, and defensive shotgun. Ashland Ohio. "Woman on Target Clinic"
I found out that she was shooting sitting not standing but still off hand and she hit 5/10. So what I said earlier is not accurate (but all the info I was given) so she had 5 misses, (4) 9s and eight ring. This was her 1st time with an AR15 or any semi auto rifle. I thought that was pretty good for a 1st timer too. She is not a 1st timer to shooting but not a marksman by any means.

 

[growr]

Having shot NRA High Power Service Rifle for many years (M1A & AR-15), I have not seen a 200 on the SR1 become common place in standing...even with a space gun/match rifle. I've seen many 195 and up ( shot some myself as a Master)...not many 200's though....sitting rapid....story changes. Maybe things have changed dramatically in the last several years.....

Randy