are all the small pistols have MIM firing pins?

[Wolffe 104]

When looking at similiar pistols such as Shield, p365, Max-9 etc... are all these guns using parts made with the powder metal process called MIM?

 

[teletech]

I don't know if they all are, but it's pretty common. Just try to find a spare firing pin for one of the newer small Berettas, they tend to break if dry-fired and are MIM. I read many of the budget 1911s are almost entirely MIM.
WWII carbine and BAR parts that are MIM seem fine, so I'm not opposed to the technology at all, when used appropriately, but this business of making firing pins and such does not bring me joy.

 

[Wolffe 104]

Yeah no joy likewise, and similar to the internal lock placed on revolvers.

 

[swsig]

Not only do M&P strikers have MIM firing pins, S&W proudly proclaims their MIM origin on their striker packages.

That said, I have three M&P semi-autos with a total of 29,000 combined rounds, with zero firing pin failures. So as far as I'm concerned, MIM firing pins are a non-issue with M&P strikers.

 

[Wolffe 104]

@swsig

Good to know. What model pistols? Out of those 3 you mention what one has been most reliable? I own a S&W 640 SS revolver from early 90's and that's been 100% reliable absolutely love this gun.

 

[oldiegoldie]

in the very early days of the .380 Body Guard there were many reports of broken firing pins. Smith blamed it on dry firing without snap caps. the firing pins were MIM. now i don't see reports of firing pins breaking and am sure Smith is still using MIM firing pins in the BG. must have made some changes to the manufacturing process. Galloway Precision sold stainless steel firing pins for the BG for quite some time, but not so now. My Body Guards have the stainless firing pins.

 

[swsig]

@swsig

Good to know. What model pistols? Out of those 3 you mention what one has been most reliable? I own a S&W 640 SS revolver from early 90's and that's been 100% reliable absolutely love this gun.

My three pistols are: 1) An M&P 40c (version 1.0), with 16,000 rounds through it. I converted it to a .357 SIG at around 13,000 rounds. 2) A Shield 45 with 8,000 rounds. 3) A Shield 9 (version 1.0) with 5,000 rounds.

My 40c has been my EDC ever since I got my license to carry in 2014. It has been very reliable or I wouldn't carry it. Around 10,000 rounds, it started to have occasional failures to fire. Eventually, S&W had to do a complete rebuild (at no charge), and I've had zero failures in the last 4,300 rounds. It's very accurate at 15 to 20 yards, it carries 11 rounds of .40 S&W or .357 SIG, and I can carry it in my front pocket. It's a perfect carry pistol in my opinion.

My Shield 45 has been my backup carry pistol. I use it when I want to “go small”. Initially, it had some failure to feed problems due to poorly designed followers. S&W replaced the followers (for free) a few years ago, and since then I have only experienced two failures in the last 4,500 rounds. The Shield 45 is astonishingly accurate for a short-barreled pistol. Of my eight semi-autos, only my FNX-45 Tactical with its 5.25” barrel is more accurate. I have no hesitation about carrying my Shield 45, but my 40c usually gets chosen due to its greater capacity.

My Shield 9 was a huge disappointment after all the rave reviews I’d read about it. It had numerous failures to eject and to feed well past the break-in period. A trip back to the factory did not solve the problems. It was obviously an outlier compared to the perfectly reliable ones reported by almost everyone else on the Forum. I finally decided that while I could deal with the failures using target ammo at the range, I needed to find some self-defense ammo that worked perfectly with it. After much testing, I found two SD rounds that worked flawlessly with my Shield 9: Hornady Critical Duty 135g +P (387 rounds, zero failures), and Federal HST 147g (225 rounds, zero failures). While I now have confidence in my Shield 9, I never carry it because I’ve come to prefer ammo that’s stouter than 9mm.

I hope this helps!

 

[Wolffe 104]

@SWSIG

Thanks for the details, I guess I will need to prepare to work out potential issues. What is the kick like on that shield 45?

 

[LostintheOzone]

I don't know if they all are, but it's pretty common. Just try to find a spare firing pin for one of the newer small Berettas, they tend to break if dry-fired and are MIM. I read many of the budget 1911s are almost entirely MIM.
WWII carbine and BAR parts that are MIM seem fine, so I'm not opposed to the technology at all, when used appropriately, but this business of making firing pins and such does not bring me joy.

There are lots of surplus M1 carbine firing pins available that are packaged US surplus. They aren't MIM because they were made in the 40's and 50's. The tech didn't exist at that time. Not sure where you're buying your parts.

You must be a collector if you have a USGI BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). Very envious.

 

[1sailor]

wolffe 104, Both my son and I own .45 Shields. I expected them to have a stout recoil but to my surprise it is actually a very soft shooting pistol. It is also accurate enough and fun enough to shoot that I kept it over my Sig P220.

 

[teletech]

There are lots of surplus M1 carbine firing pins available that are packaged US surplus. They aren't MIM because they were made in the 40's and 50's. The tech didn't exist at that time. Not sure where you're buying your parts.

You must be a collector if you have a USGI BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). Very envious.

It's a little different than the MIM we know today but the use and basic technology predates WWII. It was used to produce M1 carbine trigger assemblies, BAR receivers, and other good stuff:
"A brief history of the plant was given in the article "A History of Innovation" in the Jan. 2001 issue of MODERN CASTING. According to the article, "SMI was one of the first to develop a melting technique in which cupola iron was transported to electric arc furnaces and 'duplexed,' or treated for metallurgical control and held until it was needed at the molding lines. SMI also developed and introduced pearlitic malleable iron (known as Armasteel) in 1936, which was used extensively for military applications during WWII and the Korean War "

Ohio Ordinance makes a rather fetching semi-only BAR and the early ones were all GI parts apart from the bits needed to make it semi. The new ones are mostly or entirely new parts.

 

[swsig]

@SWSIG

Thanks for the details, I guess I will need to prepare to work out potential issues. What is the kick like on that shield 45?

As 1sailor says above, the Shield 45 is a surprisingly soft shooting pistol. I've added a Hogue rubber grip sleeve to mine to make it easier for me to grasp the slim grip, but the recoil was quite acceptable even before I installed it. If you can find a Shield 45 for rent at a friendly local range, check it out. I think you'll like it.

 

[Sheepdogged]

While I have never had a bad example with an MIM firing pin or striker in a 9mm or larger pistol, I did have two M&P Bodyguard 380 firing pins fracture. The first one fell out the day I bought it. After it was replaced, the second one broke a year later (pictured). .380 ACP firing pins are very thin, so I wish they would move away from MIM for such things.

 

[Sheepdogged]

in the very early days of the .380 Body Guard there were many reports of broken firing pins. Smith blamed it on dry firing without snap caps. the firing pins were MIM. now i don't see reports of firing pins breaking and am sure Smith is still using MIM firing pins in the BG. must have made some changes to the manufacturing process. Galloway Precision sold stainless steel firing pins for the BG for quite some time, but not so now. My Body Guards have the stainless firing pins.

I had a problem with two of my Bodyguard firing pins breaking (see post above), but it wasn't the early days. These were the newer "M&P" Bodyguard 380's (the original Bodyguard 380 wasn't an M&P). From what I later learned dealing with my issues, the length of the slide or firing pins were off by an infinitesimal amount which was enough to break the pins when they slammed the breech face without using snap caps. Once they fixed the problem, we didn't hear of the pins breaking. However, from personal experience slides, firing pins and other parts can be slightly out of spec. This isn't normally a problem either, but when these tolerances stack (e.g. both the firing pin and the slide are at the margins of acceptable tolerances), we may see a similar problem. In my opinion, a forged part would hold up to such a confluence of tolerances better than a MIM equivalent, and depending on how much the parts are out of spec will determine when or if the problem ever shows up. While we don't see people posting about the Bodyguard 380 firing pins anymore (that I know of anyway), that doesn't mean they're not still dealing with them occasionally as most M&P owners don't frequent forums on a regular basis and report such things (and that goes for firearms owners generally). Manufacturers decide whether the cost of replacing such parts with forged ones are cost effective (usually deciding the are not), but that doesn't mean MIM parts are good to go. It just means they're more cost efficient for the manufacturer. Forged parts are stronger than MIM parts, so it follows that fewer surprises (like mine) would happen if they changed over to forged firing pins. The funny thing is that the cost of firearms vary greatly compared to the difference in price between forged and MIM parts. I for one would think nothing of paying an extra $20-$30 for a MIM firing pin/striker.

 

[Wolffe 104]

wolffe 104, Both my son and I own .45 Shields. I expected them to have a stout recoil but to my surprise it is actually a very soft shooting pistol. It is also accurate enough and fun enough to shoot that I kept it over my Sig P220.

So why did three people here go with .45 (just curious) is it for shooting steel like USPSA, or for defense with massive stopping power but also less over penetration?? Or just the fun of blasting large holes on paper I know there a lot easier to see on paper.