Arrogant sellers...
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BarbC
Member
I always thought the buyer was the one in charge of a transaction.
That's the beauty of a free market system. It takes two to tango.
That's the beauty of a free market system. It takes two to tango.
imashooter2
Member
There's nothing wrong with being proud of your stuff... as long as you're willing to keep it.
When something is listed as overpriced, why do you bother with it?
When something is listed as overpriced, why do you bother with it?
Forester
Member
I agree with this. Just smile and walk away.
Mr. hamhead,
I'm afraid your personal feelings may be unique in this situation. Do you frequent shops or stores that upset you? Why worry about this? Just ignore sellers who upset you. Your argument has me believing you would like "authorities" to make your decisions for you...that's what we are fighting against in D.C., in our individual states & at City levels.
I grow weary of people asking "authorities" to make simple life decisions for them.
Some folks can't seem to "turn the channel" for themselves these days.
Just my .02
Bob
I'm afraid your personal feelings may be unique in this situation. Do you frequent shops or stores that upset you? Why worry about this? Just ignore sellers who upset you. Your argument has me believing you would like "authorities" to make your decisions for you...that's what we are fighting against in D.C., in our individual states & at City levels.
I grow weary of people asking "authorities" to make simple life decisions for them.
Some folks can't seem to "turn the channel" for themselves these days.
Just my .02
Bob
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Maybe that seller is thinking the same thing about certain buyers 
If you can't handle "arrogant people" by now - if something as inconsequential as a gun transaction makes you this frothing angry-maybe you ought to step back and "reconoiter the situation" from a removed vantage point.
Don't know you-maybe I'm off base......but.
If you can't handle "arrogant people" by now - if something as inconsequential as a gun transaction makes you this frothing angry-maybe you ought to step back and "reconoiter the situation" from a removed vantage point.
Don't know you-maybe I'm off base......but.
Bullseye 2620
Member
I have a related rant about arrogant sellers: the refusal to offer an inspection period when a firearm is purchased from an internet source.
Obviously, if you walk into a gun shop and see something you like, they let you inspect it. But somehow, when the sale is over the internet, more and more sellers are saying "take it, or leave it."
I often ask for a 24-hour inspection. Yesterday, I received a reply to such a request from the seller of a 10-5 in which I am interested. Sure, he said, he'll take it back, provided I pay for return shipping (no problem there) and a $25 restocking fee (deal-killer).
The truth is, I don't need any of the guns I am buying these days. I buy them because I like them. That being the case, I am learning to walk away from exploitive sellers and just be patient -- another gun will come along.
And while I like bargains as much as anyone, more and more I am inclined to deal with only a few people who are much more buyer-friendly.
HH, I often feel as you do, so, when my wits are quick and the price offered is outrageous, I try a little pointed humor to indicate my displeasure, and move on, e.g., "Ahhhh, I see. . .apparently you have a boat payment due" or, "Gee, I thought I asked for a price on this revolver, not a quote on a complete course of orthodontia."
In a buy-sell relationship, both parties must be treated by the other as equals. If the seller makes it clear, through outrageous pricing or other ridiculous terms, that he doesn't regard me as an equal party to the transaction, I must ask myself, "why am I even talking to someone who doesn't accord me the same consideration he demands?"
There are enough sellers out there that understand this that us buyers don't have to suffer putting up with those who regard us as "food."
'nuff said.
Bullseye
Obviously, if you walk into a gun shop and see something you like, they let you inspect it. But somehow, when the sale is over the internet, more and more sellers are saying "take it, or leave it."
I often ask for a 24-hour inspection. Yesterday, I received a reply to such a request from the seller of a 10-5 in which I am interested. Sure, he said, he'll take it back, provided I pay for return shipping (no problem there) and a $25 restocking fee (deal-killer).
The truth is, I don't need any of the guns I am buying these days. I buy them because I like them. That being the case, I am learning to walk away from exploitive sellers and just be patient -- another gun will come along.
And while I like bargains as much as anyone, more and more I am inclined to deal with only a few people who are much more buyer-friendly.
HH, I often feel as you do, so, when my wits are quick and the price offered is outrageous, I try a little pointed humor to indicate my displeasure, and move on, e.g., "Ahhhh, I see. . .apparently you have a boat payment due" or, "Gee, I thought I asked for a price on this revolver, not a quote on a complete course of orthodontia."
In a buy-sell relationship, both parties must be treated by the other as equals. If the seller makes it clear, through outrageous pricing or other ridiculous terms, that he doesn't regard me as an equal party to the transaction, I must ask myself, "why am I even talking to someone who doesn't accord me the same consideration he demands?"
There are enough sellers out there that understand this that us buyers don't have to suffer putting up with those who regard us as "food."
'nuff said.
Bullseye
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Jack Flash
Member
Arrougannette Cellars -- Don't they make an overpriced red table wine? 
Seriously, if you don't like someone's wares, ignore the post. If it's really a well worn dime a dozen type firearm, it should be easy. A lot of people go angling for suckers, and sometimes one bites (I guess).
If a seller (or anyone else for that matter) really annoys you, well, that's what the "Ignore Feature" (of this and most other Forums) was created for.
Life is too short...
Seriously, if you don't like someone's wares, ignore the post. If it's really a well worn dime a dozen type firearm, it should be easy. A lot of people go angling for suckers, and sometimes one bites (I guess).
If a seller (or anyone else for that matter) really annoys you, well, that's what the "Ignore Feature" (of this and most other Forums) was created for.
Life is too short...
Dennis The B
US Veteran
Each transaction requires two parties, buyer and seller.
Unless duress is involved, each party has control over half.
While the seller may indicate that his particular item is the "rarest on earth", "mint condition", etc., it's up to the buyer to determine if this item is valued to him/her (caveat emptor).
On the other hand, the buyer who comes to the table with all available knowledge, and is able to see through the sales hype (see preceding paragraph), will control the finality of the transaction. The knowledgeable buyer will force the seller to be more cautious in his/her description (caveat vendor).
Now, the seller may very well use derision, and other tactics, in an attempt to control the deal. It's up to the buyer to level the playing field.
These are the basics of the marketplace.
Unless duress is involved, each party has control over half.
While the seller may indicate that his particular item is the "rarest on earth", "mint condition", etc., it's up to the buyer to determine if this item is valued to him/her (caveat emptor).
On the other hand, the buyer who comes to the table with all available knowledge, and is able to see through the sales hype (see preceding paragraph), will control the finality of the transaction. The knowledgeable buyer will force the seller to be more cautious in his/her description (caveat vendor).
Now, the seller may very well use derision, and other tactics, in an attempt to control the deal. It's up to the buyer to level the playing field.
These are the basics of the marketplace.
Andy Griffith
Member
I believe you can call it "fishing for a sale."
There is nothing wrong with putting a $1000 price tag on a well worn, common 4" M&P .38 Special with a bit of flaking on it. A bit comical and good for a laugh, but nothing wrong or evil with it at this point.
Now, when a statement is attached that it is "New in box, Mint, and just like it left the factory" is when it gets me scratching my head. Those statements are either evil or just terribly misguided. It's evil when it comes from a serial gun trader, or simply a misguided vision of grandness when it comes from a person that knows nothing about guns that took a look on a gun auction site for the first time and decided to value their piece accordingly.
Secondly, when it becomes evil and wrong, is when any other statements are attached to it such as, "This once belonged to Sheriff Buford Pusser's second cousin" or "was once carried by a deputy assigned to Frank Hamer." Without verification, any statement is horse hockey.
It's a free enterprise system, and if something is priced too high, get a good chuckle and move on.
I will say that there is no reason for someone selling an item to send back a nasty gram to anyone that sent the seller a ridiculously low offer, or even an offer for which is less than they will take. A simple version of "No thank you at this time" is very sufficient. The seller might have to eat his words at a later date on the item.
If someone contacts a seller, or vice versa, cordiality should always be practiced- it usually pays off- at least it always has for me.
There is nothing wrong with putting a $1000 price tag on a well worn, common 4" M&P .38 Special with a bit of flaking on it. A bit comical and good for a laugh, but nothing wrong or evil with it at this point.
Now, when a statement is attached that it is "New in box, Mint, and just like it left the factory" is when it gets me scratching my head. Those statements are either evil or just terribly misguided. It's evil when it comes from a serial gun trader, or simply a misguided vision of grandness when it comes from a person that knows nothing about guns that took a look on a gun auction site for the first time and decided to value their piece accordingly.
Secondly, when it becomes evil and wrong, is when any other statements are attached to it such as, "This once belonged to Sheriff Buford Pusser's second cousin" or "was once carried by a deputy assigned to Frank Hamer." Without verification, any statement is horse hockey.
It's a free enterprise system, and if something is priced too high, get a good chuckle and move on.
I will say that there is no reason for someone selling an item to send back a nasty gram to anyone that sent the seller a ridiculously low offer, or even an offer for which is less than they will take. A simple version of "No thank you at this time" is very sufficient. The seller might have to eat his words at a later date on the item.
If someone contacts a seller, or vice versa, cordiality should always be practiced- it usually pays off- at least it always has for me.
These guys make me laugh. There is a blowhard of this type that I often see at the shows that I attend. I often wonder how he sells enough to maintain his table. I just chuckle and walk on by. I am never sure if they are trying to mislead someone of if they actually believe the stories that they tell.
rburg
Member
Nope, I'm not tired of them at all.
Over the weekend we were manning David Carroll's tables. I heard a dozen guys telling us we should lower our prices. Right. And only because they want a specific choice gun at a super cheap price. One guy tried to tell me the prices we were asking were way too high, and we'd sell out if we lowered them 25-50% Yep, he's right. He wanted a like new in box Winchester that came as part of the estate. And he wanted it for the price it originally sold for at retail, and we were thieves for asking twice that. So be it.
David actually told one guy who was complaining about the prices that the collection had 307 guns in it (not true), and they'd already sold 180+ at the prices they set on them. His conclusion was they were fair prices for otherwise unobtainable guns. Like all buyers, he wanted to steal the guns. Too bad.
Another thing I found amusing. The much maligned Fugates were buying more of the collection. To the best of my knowledge, they're not buying them to salt away in a safe someplace. They somehow saw enough room to score a fair profit.
The problem the OP has is when an arrogant buyer and an arrogant seller meet. The seller knows what he wants to get, and just won't budge. The buyer knows what he wants to pay, and feels anything more is an outrage. Often the buyer even knows what the gun sold for in 1959, not that anyone considers it of any consequence.
When you find a seller who you can't deal with, walk away. For kicks and giggles, wander back the following day and see if the gun is still there. Then come back at the next show and see if its moved.
Over the weekend we were manning David Carroll's tables. I heard a dozen guys telling us we should lower our prices. Right. And only because they want a specific choice gun at a super cheap price. One guy tried to tell me the prices we were asking were way too high, and we'd sell out if we lowered them 25-50% Yep, he's right. He wanted a like new in box Winchester that came as part of the estate. And he wanted it for the price it originally sold for at retail, and we were thieves for asking twice that. So be it.
David actually told one guy who was complaining about the prices that the collection had 307 guns in it (not true), and they'd already sold 180+ at the prices they set on them. His conclusion was they were fair prices for otherwise unobtainable guns. Like all buyers, he wanted to steal the guns. Too bad.
Another thing I found amusing. The much maligned Fugates were buying more of the collection. To the best of my knowledge, they're not buying them to salt away in a safe someplace. They somehow saw enough room to score a fair profit.
The problem the OP has is when an arrogant buyer and an arrogant seller meet. The seller knows what he wants to get, and just won't budge. The buyer knows what he wants to pay, and feels anything more is an outrage. Often the buyer even knows what the gun sold for in 1959, not that anyone considers it of any consequence.
When you find a seller who you can't deal with, walk away. For kicks and giggles, wander back the following day and see if the gun is still there. Then come back at the next show and see if its moved.
Bullseye 2620
Member
If someone contacts a seller, or vice versa, cordiality should always be practiced--it usually pays off--at least it always has for me.
As Andy says, it's really about respect, isn't it?
There seems to be two schools of thought about how to achieve success as a seller -- the "snatch and grab" school which regards any prospective buyer as meat, and cares only about making this sale at this price at this time, and, the old-school guys, like David Carroll or Lee Jarrett, for example, who care about building a trust relationship that will lead to more business in the future.
That difference is well-expressed in the following anecdote, which I pass on in the hopes of bringing a grin to this Monday morning:
An old buffalo bull, and a young one, were standing on the top of a hill, peacefully munching the prairie grass and observing a herd of buffalo cows grazing in the valley below. "Hey, Pops," voiced the young bull, "let's run down this hill and make love to a couple of them cows!" Replied the elder, "No, son, let's walk down, and make love to all of them."
Which one is more likely to end up with 100% market share?
'nuff said.
Bullseye
Forester
Member
How to win friends and influence people.
Maybe the sellers are tired of dealing with full of crap buyers?
Bullseye 2620
Member
For Cajun Lawyer. . .
. . .somehow, this just fits the topic at hand. . .
. . .somehow, this just fits the topic at hand. . .
Andy Griffith
Member
One thing that does get me...and that I learned a long time ago...
I never tell a seller at a gun show that "I'll be back" not only is it 99% of the time a lie, it has become a trite expression and overused. If its out of your price range and a nice piece you admire, just tell him so. If you aren't interested in a piece at a certain price, make an offer- all you can do is be shot down. (pun intended) No reason to get in a argument with a seller because he won't part with something at your price and terms- walk on to next deal.
Good things come to those who wait.
Dick, was there any single shot Winchester .22's on David's table?
I've always wanted to attend a show where he exhibited, but never have.
I never tell a seller at a gun show that "I'll be back" not only is it 99% of the time a lie, it has become a trite expression and overused. If its out of your price range and a nice piece you admire, just tell him so. If you aren't interested in a piece at a certain price, make an offer- all you can do is be shot down. (pun intended) No reason to get in a argument with a seller because he won't part with something at your price and terms- walk on to next deal.
Good things come to those who wait.
Dick, was there any single shot Winchester .22's on David's table?
I've always wanted to attend a show where he exhibited, but never have.
bk43
Member
No. Arrogance, and all of the other bad, and good BTW, traits of the human critter will exist until the end of time.
Deal with it. It's part of life.
Bob
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I probably am.
If you don't want to buy-move along-there's people behind you.And the term you are looking for , if you want to describe me in business dealings does start with an "A" but it isn't arrogant.
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Grayfox
US Veteran
I don't sell many guns, but recently did offer one. I knew what it was worth and felt I was asking a fair price for it. I was surprised at the number of low ball offers I got. I was surprised even more when some of these prospective buyers got angry and down right rude when I politely turned them down.
I guess arrogance works both ways.
I guess arrogance works both ways.
Danny Abernathy
Member
With all due respect I have been on both sides of the fence many times and there is room for manners on both sides.
Last weekend at a show in town I took a Colt LW Commander with me to see if I could find a Goverment model in similar condition to trade for.
Not finding anything I was interested in I just walked around looking the show over. I kept my gun in a case under my arm as I was tired of explaining to curious people what I had and what I wanted for it. One guy asked me what I had and I explained to him that I wasn't interested in selling my gun as I wanted to trade it. He kept asking and I finally let him see it. Asking what I would take cash for it I told him that I had a lot in the gun with the work that had been done to it and if I totaled it all I had over $1200 in the gun. He said with a smirk "I'll give you $600 right now". Well I thanked him for the offer and said again I would rather trade it and he muttered something to the effect that I was a jerk and I was crazy asking that for a gun.
The point I'm trying to make is that I didn't want to sell it, he asked what I wanted and he made a stupid offer and was insulted that I didn't take it. If you don't want to buy it at the price asked walk away, there is no need to be nasty. No one is insulted and you are a better person for it.
Nuff said.
Last weekend at a show in town I took a Colt LW Commander with me to see if I could find a Goverment model in similar condition to trade for.
Not finding anything I was interested in I just walked around looking the show over. I kept my gun in a case under my arm as I was tired of explaining to curious people what I had and what I wanted for it. One guy asked me what I had and I explained to him that I wasn't interested in selling my gun as I wanted to trade it. He kept asking and I finally let him see it. Asking what I would take cash for it I told him that I had a lot in the gun with the work that had been done to it and if I totaled it all I had over $1200 in the gun. He said with a smirk "I'll give you $600 right now". Well I thanked him for the offer and said again I would rather trade it and he muttered something to the effect that I was a jerk and I was crazy asking that for a gun.
The point I'm trying to make is that I didn't want to sell it, he asked what I wanted and he made a stupid offer and was insulted that I didn't take it. If you don't want to buy it at the price asked walk away, there is no need to be nasty. No one is insulted and you are a better person for it.
Nuff said.
rburg
Member
No. The estate did have several Winny repeaters, and there was one Kimber. The rifles take a lot of room, and I think he prefers the handguns. Its more his area of expertise.
Andy Griffith
Member
That's why I asked Dick.
Not exactly something that he specializes in, but usually in estate sales it's a "take all" proposition. I figured if David had it, it would be high grade.
Which I want.44wheelman
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You buy the gun not the BS. I don't care if the seller is a used car salesman or a polka-dot colored monkey (as long as they have proper ID of course). Yes, people who lie annoy me too (just like people who run red lights); but it's your money & your responsibility to spend it wisely.
The only thing that aggravates me is people who don't put prices on there guns, & when you ask, they tell you to make an offer. "Nevermind, I don't have time games" and walk on.
The only thing that aggravates me is people who don't put prices on there guns, & when you ask, they tell you to make an offer. "Nevermind, I don't have time games" and walk on.
3rd Gen Neal
Member
Love the run red lights shot, I agree. From red lights to rude people to loud motorcycles there has been one rant after another around here.
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