Articles- M&P PRODUCTION UPDATES: Slide stops,barrels,sear
- Thread starter JFR
- Start date
modraker
Member
Does anyone know which bullet weight is favored by the original barrel with the 1:18.75" twist?
Motorsporting
Member
I think the lighter bullets. If I remember what I saw Jerry say on one of his M&P videos, the 1:10 helps both the lighter and heavier bullets.
Fastbolt
Member
The .45 trigger bar is different, and last I was told, they expected testing to be done for the .45 models and the M&P 45 to start receiving the complete "upgrade" by the end of the year.
While there's been some slide stop lever spring revisions since the M&P's introduction for different calibers (original springs were unpainted, and then they were red, blue and yellow), the latest revision of the slide stop assembly ... with the yellow (heaviest) spring and the angled rear/lower corner of the inside of the right side of the ambi lever assembly ... is going to become the standard configuration for the M&P's.
It'll be easier than keeping 2 or 3 different assemblies for repair parts, depending on the caliber of the guns. I've still got some of the blue spring units and some of the earliest of the yellow spring units (developed for the .357's and then used in some of the 40c's, made before they added the inside angled corner).
I imagine I'll add some of the newer units to be put back against any repair usage ... once they can get enough of them for more than just trying to catch up with heavy new pistol production demand.
Gentlemen,
I have a FS9 with a test fire date of 6/2011 and have installed a DCAEK and RAM.
It appears, from this thread, that both the trigger bar and slide stop have been redesigned since I purchased my M&P. Given that I have the DCAEK & RAM installed, will I see any benefit to upgrading to these newer parts?
The RAM provided reset where none existed before but I sure wouldn't mind something a bit more tactile.
As for the barrel, I have the older non-dimpled one with the slower twist. I understand that Midway is selling the newer 1:10 barrel. Does anyone know if their trigger bar and slide stop are the newer models?
Thanks for the help.
I have a FS9 with a test fire date of 6/2011 and have installed a DCAEK and RAM.
It appears, from this thread, that both the trigger bar and slide stop have been redesigned since I purchased my M&P. Given that I have the DCAEK & RAM installed, will I see any benefit to upgrading to these newer parts?
The RAM provided reset where none existed before but I sure wouldn't mind something a bit more tactile.
As for the barrel, I have the older non-dimpled one with the slower twist. I understand that Midway is selling the newer 1:10 barrel. Does anyone know if their trigger bar and slide stop are the newer models?
Thanks for the help.
Fastbolt
Member
I'd not rush out and try to find the latest revision of the parts just for the supposed advantage of a "tactile reset".
Yes, the nice thing about the latest slide stop assembly revision is that it can help provide for some added inward pressure on the TB, to help the TB tail more briskly reset under the sear nose, and without having to add more parts, but I'd not think it's going to mean there's a dramatic difference in each and every gun.
I was inspecting a brand new production 9c for one of the guys, and even though his 9c has all the latest parts revisions my 2010 production 40c has a distinctly more noticeable "tactile reset" (and it's a stock gun). I don't notice it when shooting - as I shoot to trigger recovery, not reset - but he certainly did when I let him try it. He was very disappointed that his latest M&P didn't have a very noticeable "tactile reset".
Of course, once he was using his new 9c for a fast-paced qual course-of-fire he managed to short stroke the trigger because he was trying to hold it back to the "reset point", instead of letting it properly recover. At least he didn't experience the other type of problem that keeping a finger on the trigger under stress can cause, searching to find the reset point under stress, which is an unintentional subsequent shot. (These are often caused by the trigger being rocked under recoil, or by an unintentional muscle tremor or flinch, while the trigger is staged at the reset point. Not good at all.)
I worked with him on some more demanding drills and got him working on shooting to trigger recovery, getting his finger off the trigger so it could fully recover between intentional shots. His times quickly went down (although he wasn't aware of it, at first) ... his scores went up as his accuracy improved ... and halfway through the drills exercise he realized he wasn't feeling the travel distance, weight or "smoothness" of the trigger press. He was just functioning the trigger as needed, and was concentrating on making solid hits under stress.
Of course, some of the drills involved shooting while moving, shooting from new, different positions and postures and not being able to "index" his shooting arm during 1-handed close quarters reactions, so he had his hands full and wasn't as easily distracted by trying to distinguish the subtle nuances of "trigger reset".
Then again, he's a working reserve and has a CCW, so his primary focus isn't leisurely target shooting, but dedicated defense shooting.
Yes, the nice thing about the latest slide stop assembly revision is that it can help provide for some added inward pressure on the TB, to help the TB tail more briskly reset under the sear nose, and without having to add more parts, but I'd not think it's going to mean there's a dramatic difference in each and every gun.
I was inspecting a brand new production 9c for one of the guys, and even though his 9c has all the latest parts revisions my 2010 production 40c has a distinctly more noticeable "tactile reset" (and it's a stock gun). I don't notice it when shooting - as I shoot to trigger recovery, not reset - but he certainly did when I let him try it. He was very disappointed that his latest M&P didn't have a very noticeable "tactile reset".
Of course, once he was using his new 9c for a fast-paced qual course-of-fire he managed to short stroke the trigger because he was trying to hold it back to the "reset point", instead of letting it properly recover. At least he didn't experience the other type of problem that keeping a finger on the trigger under stress can cause, searching to find the reset point under stress, which is an unintentional subsequent shot. (These are often caused by the trigger being rocked under recoil, or by an unintentional muscle tremor or flinch, while the trigger is staged at the reset point. Not good at all.)
I worked with him on some more demanding drills and got him working on shooting to trigger recovery, getting his finger off the trigger so it could fully recover between intentional shots. His times quickly went down (although he wasn't aware of it, at first) ... his scores went up as his accuracy improved ... and halfway through the drills exercise he realized he wasn't feeling the travel distance, weight or "smoothness" of the trigger press. He was just functioning the trigger as needed, and was concentrating on making solid hits under stress.
Of course, some of the drills involved shooting while moving, shooting from new, different positions and postures and not being able to "index" his shooting arm during 1-handed close quarters reactions, so he had his hands full and wasn't as easily distracted by trying to distinguish the subtle nuances of "trigger reset".
Then again, he's a working reserve and has a CCW, so his primary focus isn't leisurely target shooting, but dedicated defense shooting.
Last edited:
I have a very new and as of yet unfired M&P 40 FS, produced July 2013. The machined sear has a 'reset modification' profile pictured above that is much like the APEX sear. It also has the modified slide stop. Over travel and reset are fantastic in dry fire testing. Less than half the over travel and reset compared to my three month old Shield 40. Both triggers have gritty triggers due to the firing pin block. Both guns will get APEX firing pin blocks ASAP, and have any internal burrs removed while they are apart. The Shield will need a full up APEX carry kit to get it up to the level of the new full size M&P trigger. It's that good.
I also picked up a FS 9mm barrel from Midway. 2 dimple marks. fast twist barrel. Not quite 1/2 revolution in 4.25 inches. Looks like a 1 in 10 twist.
I also picked up a FS 9mm barrel from Midway. 2 dimple marks. fast twist barrel. Not quite 1/2 revolution in 4.25 inches. Looks like a 1 in 10 twist.
N4KVE
Member
I just e-mailed S&W to ask if there have been any upgrade in parts on recently built M&P's since my 4 year old gun was made. They replied there were none.
Reference number: LTK111770304716X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: Question on my M&P 40c
Dear Customer,
There has been no change in your firearm at this time.
If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.
Sincerely,
Don
This message, including all attachments: (i) May contain technical data as defined in the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10. Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported or transferred to non-U.S. persons without prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State; and (ii) Is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
---------------Original Message---------------
From: GARY TANINBAUM < [email protected] >
Subject:
Question on my M&P 40c
Hello. I recently picked up a M&P 40c, ser # MFP0@@@. It shoots fine, but I am wondering if there are any upgrades or improvements in newly produced versions of this gun since the gun is 4 years old. It has only 200 rounds through it. I am not looking for free warranty work, but I am just wondering if newer guns got different [improved] parts. Sincerely, GARY TANINBAUM
Reference number: LTK111770304716X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: Question on my M&P 40c
Dear Customer,
There has been no change in your firearm at this time.
If further assistance is required please reply accordingly.
Sincerely,
Don
This message, including all attachments: (i) May contain technical data as defined in the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10. Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported or transferred to non-U.S. persons without prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State; and (ii) Is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
---------------Original Message---------------
From: GARY TANINBAUM < [email protected] >
Subject:
Question on my M&P 40c
Hello. I recently picked up a M&P 40c, ser # MFP0@@@. It shoots fine, but I am wondering if there are any upgrades or improvements in newly produced versions of this gun since the gun is 4 years old. It has only 200 rounds through it. I am not looking for free warranty work, but I am just wondering if newer guns got different [improved] parts. Sincerely, GARY TANINBAUM
Last edited:
Rastoff
US Veteran
It may be important to note that the articles in the OP were not written by S&W. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that point.
N4KVE, I guess I'm not too surprised at their reply.
Do you have any dimples on the barrel? How many, mine has two (mfg early 2013). My slide stop is also the updated version, as well as the Sear. You should be able to see these when cleaning (without a complete tear down). Look for the dimple on the sear.
You can get all of these at Midway or Brownell's relatively inexpensive other than the barrel being a little more expensive. I imagine the trigger parts would be more beneficial for the dollar than the barrel. The question would be speaking with someone there to see if they are the newer versions, I'm not sure if the part numbers changed at all.
Sear Housing Block Assembly, Standard : SEAR HOUSING BLOCK ASSEMBLY, STANDARD | Brownells
Slide Stop Assembly : SLIDE STOP ASSEMBLY | Brownells
MP (Semi-Auto) | World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS
JFR
Do you have any dimples on the barrel? How many, mine has two (mfg early 2013). My slide stop is also the updated version, as well as the Sear. You should be able to see these when cleaning (without a complete tear down). Look for the dimple on the sear.
You can get all of these at Midway or Brownell's relatively inexpensive other than the barrel being a little more expensive. I imagine the trigger parts would be more beneficial for the dollar than the barrel. The question would be speaking with someone there to see if they are the newer versions, I'm not sure if the part numbers changed at all.
Sear Housing Block Assembly, Standard : SEAR HOUSING BLOCK ASSEMBLY, STANDARD | Brownells
Slide Stop Assembly : SLIDE STOP ASSEMBLY | Brownells
MP (Semi-Auto) | World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS
JFR
You are correct!
Bkreutz
US Veteran
I think since S&W is on vacation, that response probably came from the night watchman who was bored.
N4KVE
Member
The reply came from "Don" @ S&W. Does anyone know who "Don" is? GARY
Last edited:
Rastoff
US Veteran
In a week or two I'm going to call S&W for the new slide stop. The picture in the Brownells link is the old slide stop. I'm not convinced they'll ship the new version.
I plan to call and ask about the guiderod spring. I think that I have early ejection issues per may brass markings and some damage from primers. I hear that they are now using the green 16lb spring as in the .45. I may just buy one and see how it works. Does anyone know of any issues or reasons not to try this?
Rastoff
US Veteran
My .40 came with a green spring. Test fire date of 5/31/13. It is not the same spring as the .45. I also have a .45 and the springs are different lengths.
That's right, now I remember that you started this once before. Does the .45 have a 4.5" barrel?
Rastoff
US Veteran
Newest changes to M&P
Smith does listen, it seems. My July 2013 build M&P40 has another new slide stop design. Instead of the old stamped trigger bar pressure area, it now has a stepped pad welded to the slide stop. The purpose appears to be to apply lateral pressure to the trigger bar to enhance tactile reset feel. Pictures attached.
I also purchased a trigger/trigger bar assembly from Midway to work on in an attempt to improve gritty trigger pull. The trigger bar on my gun is stamped "R". Pictured on the top. The one from Midway is stamped "S". It has a shallower engagement angle and it .015 inches shorter at the top of the loop. End result: it moves the sear engagement later in the trigger pull, and softens trigger pull. Combined with the new factory machined sear with a profile that mimics an Apex or a Burwell sear, overtravel is reduced and reset feel is increased.
My M&P and my Shield both had gritty trigger pulls. Simply polishing the machining marks of of the trigger bar contact point with the striker firing pin block removed all the gritty feel.
The stock M&P trigger bar loop, when viewed from above, did not fully engage the sear like the one on my Shield did. Simply tweaking the sear engagement loop slightly to the left so it would completely engage the sear had the pleasant effect of greatly improving reset "feel".
Bottom line: There is no longer as much need for aftermarket sears on the newest M&P. Stock parts are improving.
All the Shield needs is a trigger stop to limit overtravel. Take up is short and release is crisp. Overtravel is excessive, though.
Smith does listen, it seems. My July 2013 build M&P40 has another new slide stop design. Instead of the old stamped trigger bar pressure area, it now has a stepped pad welded to the slide stop. The purpose appears to be to apply lateral pressure to the trigger bar to enhance tactile reset feel. Pictures attached.
I also purchased a trigger/trigger bar assembly from Midway to work on in an attempt to improve gritty trigger pull. The trigger bar on my gun is stamped "R". Pictured on the top. The one from Midway is stamped "S". It has a shallower engagement angle and it .015 inches shorter at the top of the loop. End result: it moves the sear engagement later in the trigger pull, and softens trigger pull. Combined with the new factory machined sear with a profile that mimics an Apex or a Burwell sear, overtravel is reduced and reset feel is increased.
My M&P and my Shield both had gritty trigger pulls. Simply polishing the machining marks of of the trigger bar contact point with the striker firing pin block removed all the gritty feel.
The stock M&P trigger bar loop, when viewed from above, did not fully engage the sear like the one on my Shield did. Simply tweaking the sear engagement loop slightly to the left so it would completely engage the sear had the pleasant effect of greatly improving reset "feel".
Bottom line: There is no longer as much need for aftermarket sears on the newest M&P. Stock parts are improving.
All the Shield needs is a trigger stop to limit overtravel. Take up is short and release is crisp. Overtravel is excessive, though.
Attachments
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,001
- Reaction score
- 7,059
This is not correct in my experience. Admittedly, I have only sent in a couple of M&Ps since they have been introduced, but in both cases, they replaced not only affected parts, but other internals that had been upgraded since production began on the M&P.
