ATF now wants to know who has powder!

[pantannojack]

"ATF now wants to know who has powder".

I want to know who has that too. @ practical prices.

Possibly some one at ATF also shoots Trap, High Power NM, Bullseye, SASS, etc.

 

[Racer X]

I can't cite it, and I may be wrong altogether, but wasn't there a SCOTUS case a couple of years ago where the Supremes struck down a law restricting ammo as un-Constitutional - on the grounds that you can't "bear arms" without access to ammo?

There is a case right now in California about their ammo purchase scheme. Your reasoning is what the plaintiffs are arguing. Ammo constitutes "bearable arms" It is in Judge Benitz's courtroom currently. Oral arguements were July 17th. Update From Rhode v. Bonta Oral Arguments - YOUR Help Needed! - CRPA

 

[TheTinMan]

We all know that smokeless powder burns but does not explode; however, we also should know that reality and science don’t infringe upon the actions of these tyrants.

 

[Greyman50]

In revolutionary times Arms meant shot and powder, look it up…….

 

[Tu_S]

I read DOJ is amending ATF regulations.
Is this regarding existing rules or an addition?

It's a proposed amendment/extension for people who hold federal explosive licenses or permits, FEL/FEP, and probably pyrotechnics licenses that the guys who do professional fireworks displays have.

Unfortunately, this post is just another instance of someone reading something on the Internet and jumping to their own conclusions, deciding for themselves that it also covers propellants used for reloading, and then letting us know the sky is falling

 

[BC38]

Primers are explosive, smokeless powder by itself is not.

So do we have to report our stash of primers?

 

[biku324]

Sigh.

Smokeless powders designed for use in small arms ammunition are exempt from regulation under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 40 and the regulations in 27 CFR Part 555. Packaging that readily identifies the smokeless powder as being designed for use in small arms ammunition may help in determining whether it is entitled to the exemption. Smokeless powder designed for use other than in small arms ammunition, and explosive products such as squibs, fireworks, theatrical special effects, or other articles that may contain smokeless powders, are regulated and must be stored pursuant to the regulations at 27 CFR 555, Subpart K – Storage.

It should be noted that persons engaged in the business of importing or manufacturing smokeless powder designed for any use must have a Federal explosives license. Further, importers of smokeless powder designed for use in small arms ammunition must also possess an ATF firearms importers license (Type 08 or 11); must register with ATF under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act; and must submit (to ATF) and receive an approved ATF Form 6 – part I (5330.3A), Application and Permit for Importation of Firearms Ammunition and Implements of War. Is smokeless powder designed for use in small arms ammunition subject to the explosives storage requirements? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[s&wchad]

A non-issue... We're done here.

 

[handejector]

Smokeless powder is considered flammable not explosive.

From the ATF website:

Explosives are any chemical compound, mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion. The term includes, but is not limited to, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, ammonium nitrate fuel oil (ANFO) mixtures, safety fuses, squibs, mixed binary explosives, and igniters. Explosives are also present in items such as automotive air bag inflators, special industrial tools, fire extinguishers, some pest control devices, some model rocket engines, fireworks, and special effects in the entertainment industry.

Sigh.

Smokeless powders designed for use in small arms ammunition are exempt from regulation under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 40 and the regulations in 27 CFR Part 555. Packaging that readily identifies the smokeless powder as being designed for use in small arms ammunition may help in determining whether it is entitled to the exemption. Smokeless powder designed for use other than in small arms ammunition, and explosive products such as squibs, fireworks, theatrical special effects, or other articles that may contain smokeless powders, are regulated and must be stored pursuant to the regulations at 27 CFR 555, Subpart K – Storage.

It should be noted that persons engaged in the business of importing or manufacturing smokeless powder designed for any use must have a Federal explosives license. Further, importers of smokeless powder designed for use in small arms ammunition must also possess an ATF firearms importers license (Type 08 or 11); must register with ATF under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act; and must submit (to ATF) and receive an approved ATF Form 6 – part I (5330.3A), Application and Permit for Importation of Firearms Ammunition and Implements of War. Is smokeless powder designed for use in small arms ammunition subject to the explosives storage requirements? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A non-issue... We're done here.

When I first saw this thread, I agreed with all the above. I watched the video and and read the ATF proposal page linked above.
I obtained my first FFL in 1975 to manufacture and reload ammo commercially.
In all the years since, the above has been the norm, and I feel this is a non-issue as s&wchad said.

Mighty concerning if you ask me.

Not until they include smokeless powder in the definition of "explosives" it isn't.
It currently isn't in the list of things defined as explosives, and as two others have already pointed out in this thread, it isn't an explosive, it is classified as a propellant. Of course they could change that definition at any time I suppose.

I decided to dig a little deeper "just in case", and to clarify the issue.
In fact, ATF DOES class smokeless powder as an explosive.
We won't be taking my word for it.
I'll show you-

Let's start with a link to the proposed rule-
Regulations.gov

There, you will see this. NOTE the highlighted text:

Action
Notice of proposed rulemaking.

Summary

The Department of Justice is proposing to amend Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (“ATF”) regulations to require that any person who stores explosive materials notify on an annual basis the authority having jurisdiction for fire safety in the locality in which the explosive materials are being stored of the type of explosives, magazine capacity, and location of each site where such materials are stored. In addition, the proposed rule requires any person who stores explosive materials to notify the authority having jurisdiction for fire safety in the locality in which the explosive materials were stored whenever storage is discontinued. These changes are intended to increase public safety.

That highlighted phrase about "any person" probably started this alarm.



Here is a link to Federal Explosives Law and Regulations
This IS law.
On Page 1, Section 841 (d), you will see this. NOTE the highlighted text:

(d) Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h),
(i), and (j) of section 844 of this title, “explosives” means any
chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common
purpose of which is to function by explosion; the term includes,
but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black
powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety
fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and igniters. The
Attorney General shall publish and revise at least annually in the
Federal Register a list of these and any additional explosives
which he determines to be within the coverage of this chapter. For
the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section
844 of this title, the term “explosive” is defined in subsection (j)
of such section 844.

In the definition of explosive in 844 (j) referenced immediately above you will see this. NOTE the highlighted text:

844 (j) For the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i)
of this section and section 842(p), the term “explosive” means
gunpowders, powders used for blasting, all forms of high
explosives, blasting materials, fuzes (other than electric circuit
breakers), detonators, and other detonating agents, smokeless
powders, other explosive or incendiary devices within the
meaning of paragraph (5) of section 232 of this title, and any
chemical compounds, mechanical mixture, or device that contains
any oxidizing and combustible units, or other ingredients, in such
proportions, quantities, or packing that ignition by fire, by
friction, by concussion, by percussion, or by detonation of the
compound, mixture, or device or any part thereof may cause an
explosion.

Starting on Page 102 we see a "List of Explosive Materials" which includes Smokeless Powder on Page 104.

Above, where it states:

The Attorney General shall publish and revise at least annually in the
Federal Register a list of these and any additional explosives
which he determines to be within the coverage of this chapter.

you can find that list in the Federal Register as: Commerce in Explosives; 2022 Annual List of Explosive Materials
Scroll down to the letter S and you will see Smokeless Powder.

NOTE that Federal Explosives Law and Regulations is a lengthy, complex document. On Page 44, under Subpart H Exemptions, 555.141 (a) (4) "Small arms ammunition and components of small
arms ammunition." are exempt.

Summary:
>The sky is not falling.
>Smokeless Powder has long been classed as an explosive, but ammo and components have long been exempt from most regulations on explosives.
>Reporting on the location of stored explosives to Fire Departments has been required for a very long time. Don't you think a fireman has a right to know he is entering a burning building where explosives are stored? Would YOU want to know?
>ATF is proposing that the reporting be done annually instead of just at the time of acquisition. In other words, updated annually.
>I doubt that they will start placing the requirement for reporting on component powder and it will remain exempt as it currently is.
>I DO NOT think this is an end run to "register" reloaders, but vigilance will ALWAYS be necessary!