ATF visited me,Has this happened to you ?Happy Ending!!

[haris1]

I find this very interesting. I got a call on my home phone where an agent left a message to call him back. I googled him first and he is real so I called him back and asked him what it was about and he replied...."well, you have bought a lot of guns lately". I said..." I collect guns ....what is the problem?". He said
"I dont like to go into things on the phone, can I come see you ?
We made an appointment for the same day(today) and he came by. After he showed me his badge and ID we sat down. He told me that in the last 10 years there were guns that I bought new that were used in crimes or recovered in crimes like burglaries.There were 3 or 4 . If you buy a new gun and its recovered later on, that gun is traced to you since the mfr sold it to a distributor and the distributor sold it to a gun shop and you would be the one who signed out for it. Maybe it changed hands multiple times but the chain of tracing it down ends.
That never bothered them since the guns that I bought new
surfaced many years later and far away from me so that I was not a person of interest.
But now comes the kicker.Since 2010, i decided that with declining interest rates, that i needed to reinvest in something that would give me a better return than CD's so I chose GUNS. Now ATF has been getting multiple sale forms since I use one dealer for my transfers. I am surprised that it took them 3 years to finally contact me. The multiple sales forms are in the hundreds of handguns !!So, the agent shows up and I explain how I am a Smith collector and I am not buying gang banger guns like lorcins and hipoints and I am not selling them either. I show him a notebook with Roy Jinks factory letters and explain that i am a Smith afficionado. He sees all my plaques on the wall where I have won various matches since I am a competitive IDPA shooter. Then he says" Can you show me some of these pieces so I can satisfy my superiors? I said.. " I can do better....
get me 6 serial numbers from all the forms you have on file and I will bring them in within 24 hours. He says.."not necessary" show me some of your guns. I open up a gun safe and all my guns are in boxes with bold print of whats in each box,model numbers ,barrel lengths and serial numbers
Before too long I am pulling out boxes and he is admiring
them and even trying the triggers on ones that had action jobs!! Then he asks me what the dash numbers mean! Before too long he appreciated that some of us are enthusiasts and he walked away knowing more about smiths then he did before. I didnt have to show him anything but in todays paranoid environment, ATF has plenty of gun show dealers who sell to out of staters which is illegal. There are plenty of straw purchasers who buy for their friends. They have a lot on their plate. I thought this agent was very straight up and
I didnt have anything to hide. They have a lot on their plate and this agent was told to visit me as I came up on their radar
He shared with me that he used to carry a Sig 229 until they changed to something else. I told him I had a Sig P229 Sport which is a compensated gun that has hardly any recoil. I offered..."Let me know when you get this way again.Call me and I will bring it in. Its a very cooll gun , adjustable sights,compensated with negligible recoil" He said ...."Sounds good,I will"
Have any of you fellow Smithophiles had visits from ATF?
if so, please enlighten us
thanks
Haris1

 

[Erich]

Only when I worked at a gun store. Glad you had a nice experience with a fellow who was doing a good job for us taxpayers.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Yes, twice, nearly twenty years ago. First time, the agent was a class act. Second time, multiple agents. It must have been "take a dumb butt to work day".

 

[cmort666]

I've never been visited by the BATFE, and never would let them into my home without a warrant, nor would I talk to them without benefit of counsel.

Many years ago, they contacted a dealer to whom I'd traded a gun, which later turned out to be stolen. He contacted me via the Army Locator Service. I told the dealer that I'd purchased it on a 4473 from another dealer in the area and that was the last I heard of the matter.

The BATFE has some serious issues with telling the truth, up to and including creating an OFFICIAL training video on how to lie under oath about the accuracy of the NFA record keeping system.

I wouldn't even THINK about talking to them without having an attorney present. My lawyer's dealt with them in the past and was, to put it mildly, underwhelmed.

 

[Frizzman]

That happened to me a few years ago.An agent called my home and asked if he could come by to inquire about some guns I purchased. I agreed. Two ATF agents came to my house due to a goodly amount of purchases back then. They were required to check on this because of a computer program that tagged people who made multiple purchases over a certain amout of time. They were polite and friendly and quickly said they could tell that I am not gun runner. They told me they were doing their job and actually liked guns. We had some coffee and talked about guns and shooting. I even let them look at a few of my more interesting examples. Being a former LEO, I understood their positions. I had no stress over the affair and have never had another visit.

 

[Xfuzz]

Don't like fishin trips from the feds. His reasoning was lame.
Glad it panned out OK for you.

 

[diamonback68]

Not in person but through my favorite LGS a few years ago who is since gone out of business. They inquired of him about me about how many guns I was buying. Dealer responded "many" and in fact he had a couple of my guns on consignment. ATF agent looked at them and remarked "Do you mean he's selling guns that pretty". My dealer responded "Yes he's that particular, he's a true collector". Nothing more was said.

 

[snowman]

I guess I need to be enlightened. I'm glad that haris1 and frizzman had good experiences, but I don't understand why federal agents are visiting people who buy guns lawfully, just because they buy more, and more frequently, than the average joe. Pardon my ignorance, but that sounds really intrusive to me. Can someone help me out here?

Andy

 

[ColbyBruce]

In my case, I had purchased thirteen handguns at one time on a long form. Multiple purchases are required to be sent to ATF. Second time, a gun I once owned turned up in a Norfolk, VA robbery/shooting.

I was in a shop a little over a year ago buying a box of .22 shorts and a agent was there asking about a man who had made a multiple purchase. The clerk was new, he did not know the customer in question.

I was the customer.

 

[haris1]

why does ATF look into multiple gun purchases?

Snowman, this is a direct answer to your question. All ATF sees is multple gun purchases which a dealer is required to fax to ATF for more than one handgun in a 5 business day period.How do they know whether people are trafficiking in guns, selling to gangbangers or dealing without a license? if they dont ask?
I cant blame them if they dont check it out. I am a honest collector and I have nothing to hide. If they want to visit me, I will tell them what I am doing.I think these agents have a job to do, they put their life on the line, the least I could do is allay their fears that they have to worry about me. I dont need to throw it in their face that they need to get warrants. I have nothing to hide and many of them are no different than we are,
law abiding gun owners!!!

 

[Diablo982]

I guess I need to be enlightened. I'm glad that haris1 and frizzman had good experiences, but I don't understand why federal agents are visiting people who buy guns lawfully, just because they buy more, and more frequently, than the average joe. Pardon my ignorance, but that sounds really intrusive to me. Can someone help me out here?

Andy

Yes, I can help you out. There are actually some people who buy hundreds of guns in legal states, then sell them to convicted felons. I recall a case several years ago where a woman bought over a hundred guns in Richmond, VA and sold them to street gangs in Washington, DC. One of the weapons was used to kill a police officer. (Insert gunrunner irony here.)

It sounds like ATF has a program which detects a very large number of gun transfers. Haris1 mentioned acquiring hundreds of guns. Apparently that triggered the alert. It sounds like his interaction with the agent was positive. Your mileage may vary. You certainly don't have to speak with the agents but I don't have a problem if they attempt voluntary interviews.

 

[Xfuzz]

How many is too many ???
What is the majic number ?

 

[walkin jack]

I very much enjoyed reading the op. It made me feel good for a fellow gun enthusiast to have a positive contact with a government agent and it made me feel good for a government agent to have a positive contact with a legitimate gun collector and experience the fact that every one out there isn't a gang banger. Thanks for sharing that experience with us.

 

[jaykellogg]

I have had 3 multiple gun purchases since December. All at pawn shops in town here. Maybe I will get to talk to a BATFE agent or two.

 

[S. Hammer]

I've dealt with them a few times on duty to assist when they needed help with unlicensed persons selling multiple guns at flea markets. The people they were investigating had stacks of new firearms in their homes that they were selling as "private sales" at flea markets. They were truly unlicensed dealers selling guns to anyone with cash. What I noticed was that most of them had very little knowledge of firearms. I had explain to them what a lot of the guns were (AKM's, semi auto RPK's, Turkish Mausers), the stacks of Glocks were obvious. I have no use for their upper echelon (but then I have no use for my upper echelon), but the street level agents are looking for people making multiple sales to unqualified people (like gang members) which cause the crimes that the media tries to hang on law abiding gun owners. While I would never want to work for them, some of their people are just cops looking for bad guys. I won't paint them all with a broad brush.

As an addendum, I once traded in a Model 639 for a really nice Colt Trooper MK V at a local gun store. About 4 years later the sheriff's office in the neighboring county where I made the trade called because my old 639 was found during a raid at a local crack house (they had no idea I was a cop). It was great when the narc asked our dispatch to send a deputy by my house to tell me to call him, and the dispatcher asked him "Do you mean you want a deputy to go by Sergeant ******'s house and have him call you?" "Oh, uh, maybe someone can call him and give him the message?" The ATF trace showed the gun being sold to me at a gun shop in Pompano Beach, FL in the late '80's. I directed the agent to the local gun shop where I traded the gun in and advised him check the dealer's bound book for the transaction. They must have found it because they never called me back. I also never did business with that LGS again just to be on the safe side.

 

[haris1]

multiple gun purchase and ATF

I am not bragging but just want to be informative. I have bought at least 200-300 guns a year for the last 3 years so I had to appear on their radar! I am surprised it took this long. I have nothing to hide so I welcomed his visit. These guys put their lives on the line and get killed in illegal gun trafficing
situations and other things that they do , I want them to know that there are honest citizen gun enthusiasts out there.Dont be defensive and think the worst. They have a job to do and we should support them.

 

[Kinman]

I was visited by the FBI over 30 years ago. They wanted to know about a pistol that I had bought. I asked them what pistol and they said "One Colt Trooper MKIII serial number XXXXX, purchased at Ed's Gunatorium on such and such a date." I said told them that I had bought a pistol that matched that description but had sold it to a friend. They wanted to know who the friend was, I told them, they then wanted to know where he was. I told them he was dead, he died shortly after I sold him the gun. I told them that as far as I knew he was widower and had one daughter, thats all I knew. They thanked me and started to leave, I told them I would like to know what all this was about. They told me that the pistol was recovered from an armed robber and they were just following their leads.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I never got a phone call before either visit, they just showed up.

The goobers that showed up at my home the second time let my son's Brittany Spaniel out of the backyard.

 

[Stainless44]

Did he ask if you could spare a few for the mexican drug cartels?

I bet you dried up their normal supply!

 

[fat tom]

Haris,do you not do any private purchases,or when you do,do you get a bill of sale with identification? Do you also transfer these guns to you using your FFL? I guess what I'm asking is if you do have some guns without paperwork,what would you have done if the agent had just happened to pluck one of those out of the safe and asked where you got it? Without the paperwork,wouldn't you then be opening yourself up for having to provide a COMPLETE inventory?
f.t.