Attacked by Pitbull.. What would you do?

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, you took an unnecessary risk, but it work out for you this time. Next time use good sense and shoot the dog immediately when it came on your property in the offensive mode. Then, report the situation as soon as possible to the authorities. I really like dogs; I also really like my dogs and I really like my feet, legs, arms and hands. I won't risk the welfare of any of them in allowing an aggressive dog to survive to attack again. ................

 

[Bob R]

What would I have done? Dropped it on the spot and then called the police.

As an ER Nurse I have seen some nasty injuries to people from dogs and a lot, no most, of them are from the owner/s trying to break them up.

Not to get real graphic but when you come into the ER with your calf ripped off of the Achilles tendon and just flapping in the wind from a dog getting hold you most people will wish they had just shot the dog.

And as you already are doing, carry a bigger caliber. Plan on emptying your magazine into the animal also.

bob

 

[RSanch111]

They just had a guy sentenced in Detroit for harboring a pack of dogs at his house. The dogs came out of the house and ATE a pedestrian. Literally. They got him down on the ground and ate his arm and leg. He's still in recovery in rehab and the attack was months ago. When the cops got there, they shot one dog and all the rest of them ran back into the house. If that poor schlub would have had a gun, he'd still have all of his arms and legs.

Is that some third world stuff or what?

 

[Hook686]

As I recall it, earlier this year a retired Navy SEAL was mauled and killed by 2 pit bulls that attacked him. Now I am no retired Navy SEAL and I doubt I would have much chance against 1 pit bull, let alone 2. If the owner cannot control the dog and it closes in on me in a threatening manner I do not see any option aside from shooting the dog. This is why I try to carry a stun gun cane when I am out walking and expect to cross paths with a stray, off leash dog.

 

[Hook686]

...
I'm not saying you were wrong to be concerned. I would be too with ANY large dog but to think that just because it's a Pitt automatically makes it dangerous is like saying guns automatically make people dangerous.

Actually a person possessing a gun does in fact automatically make them dangerous.

 

[Hook686]

I chose a direction I knew to be safe.

It depends on your jurisdiction. Where I live, an incorporated area, you would have been arrested for firing the gun in the air. Unless you were being attacked, or another human was being attacked I suspect you would be arrested. Your dog is deemed property. Drawing and firing your gun to protect property is illegal here. Even if you think you are right and get off the charges it will cost you a bunch to sort it out. The prudent thing is to not draw unless you are in fear of your life, or another person's life. I think forceable felony also counts.

 

[Mainsail]

Not to get real graphic but when you come into the ER with your calf ripped off of the Achilles tendon and just flapping in the wind from a dog getting hold you most people will wish they had just shot the dog.

And as you already are doing, carry a bigger caliber. Plan on emptying your magazine into the animal also.

bob

Thanks for reinforcing what I already knew- even if so graphically.

I think as a general rule, people DON'T carry the bigger calibers for several reasons.

Some prioritize capacity and carry 9mm, a marginal caliber at best. Why? Some internet guru told them they need to be commandos when they go to the mall, or they believe they'll have time to empty a magazine, etc.

Others prioritize absolute concealment, and so choose lesser calibers than the 9mm to make it completely hidden. Why? Lingering feelings of illegality, shame that someone might find out they're a gun owner/carrier, etc.

Still others prioritize comfort. Why? Injuries or infirmities, smaller stature, can't be bothered, etc.

I had given the subject a lot of thought over the past few years- especially after reading/hearing accounts from police officers (who shoot mean dogs pretty regularly) and how the 9mm was a fail in such situations. I resolved to make the .357sig (at its 'real' power) the minimum caliber I would carry. My carry rotation is .357sig (mostly), .45acp (second) and 10mm. I've prioritized caliber first recognizing that in most situations I may only have time for two or three shots- so they need to count. After caliber I've prioritized comfort- so I spend a little more on good holsters- my last order from Tucker Gunleather for my P320 ran me about $250. I prioritize concealment last in most situations, but when it needs to be concealed, I have an XDs in .45acp that can disappear in an OWB holster.

 

[Mainsail]

I'll drag this back up to report an almost incident from last night.

So I'm about a mile and a half into my four mile run on a part of the trail that's wide and paved (vs everywhere else that's narrow and gravel) and was being approached by two 20ish young ladies with a pitbull. It was two-shirt weather so I was carrying strong side concealed. As I came abeam the two women the dog lunged at me so hard it almost took the one holding the leash right off her feet.

Great, I am about 100 yards from the turnaround point at the top of the hill so I'll have to pass them again. I tucked my cover shirt behind the holster- if that collar should let go or the leash snap, speed will be of the essence.

On the second pass the other (smaller) girl had the dog, and this time it lunged even harder but she had both hands on the lead and hauled back like she was reeling in swordfish. Me- hand on gun, full grip, walking backwards trying to get some distance in case the leather collar should fail. Meanwhile she got between me and the dog and shoved it off the trail into the grass and slammed it to the ground. Dominance training time I guess.

I resumed running and warned a woman coming up the hill (with a tiny dog and two toddlers) about the almost-out-of-control dog heading her way. She paused and then kept on going.

All-in-all only a minor incident but a lesson nonetheless. Even with a full grip I would have been shooting a dog that was already eating me. Definitely not an ideal situation.

 

[686-380]

I just bought a jogging holster...

I'll drag this back up to report an almost incident from last night.

So I'm about a mile and a half into my four mile run on a part of the trail that's wide and paved (vs everywhere else that's narrow and gravel) and was being approached by two 20ish young ladies with a pitbull. It was two-shirt weather so I was carrying strong side concealed. As I came abeam the two women the dog lunged at me so hard it almost took the one holding the leash right off her feet.

Great, I am about 100 yards from the turnaround point at the top of the hill so I'll have to pass them again. I tucked my cover shirt behind the holster- if that collar should let go or the leash snap, speed will be of the essence.

On the second pass the other (smaller) girl had the dog, and this time it lunged even harder but she had both hands on the lead and hauled back like she was reeling in swordfish. Me- hand on gun, full grip, walking backwards trying to get some distance in case the leather collar should fail. Meanwhile she got between me and the dog and shoved it off the trail into the grass and slammed it to the ground. Dominance training time I guess.

I resumed running and warned a woman coming up the hill (with a tiny dog and two toddlers) about the almost-out-of-control dog heading her way. She paused and then kept on going.

All-in-all only a minor incident but a lesson nonetheless. Even with a full grip I would have been shooting a dog that was already eating me. Definitely not an ideal situation.

You know, I've only run about 12 miles with my new holster. It was mainly because I jog on some halfway remote trails. After reading this story, I think I'll start using it when running in town too. Thanks for sharing!!!

 

[CoMF]

It's threads like these that remind me of how some people have about as much understanding of "pit bulls" and "dog attacks" as the mass media has of "assault weapons."

I've been charged by more than a few dogs in my lifetime. None of them were Pit Bulls. None of them have ever bitten me. If I shot every dog that "lunged" or snarled at me, I'd have already served time for Animal Cruelty.

Dogs are not people. Generally speaking, you can't "read" what they're going to do until they're right up within "bad breath" distance. How -you- react plays a large role in whether you get bitten or not. Dogs have an uncanny ability to sense our emotions, including fear.

You want to know what a really mean dog is? Try a Shar Pei. An off-leash Shar Pei charged clear across another piece of property after my family and me while we were out on a walk one day. I stepped in front of my wife and stepson, looked straight in the dog's eyes and didn't so much as flinch. She eventually got the point and trotted off in a huff.

Those two ladies mentioned in another post at least were responsible enough to keep their dog on a leash. I've known some pretty irresponsible owners who let their pets run free range in spite of PA having a state-wide leash law. I'm more worried about off-leash dogs than Pit Bulls as a breed.

 

[Hook686]

It's threads like these that remind me of how some people have about as much understanding of "pit bulls" and "dog attacks" as the mass media has of "assault weapons."

I've been charged by more than a few dogs in my lifetime. None of them were Pit Bulls. None of them have ever bitten me. If I shot every dog that "lunged" or snarled at me, I'd have already served time for Animal Cruelty.

Dogs are not people. Generally speaking, you can't "read" what they're going to do until they're right up within "bad breath" distance. How -you- react plays a large role in whether you get bitten or not. Dogs have an uncanny ability to sense our emotions, including fear.

You want to know what a really mean dog is? Try a Shar Pei. An off-leash Shar Pei charged clear across another piece of property after my family and me while we were out on a walk one day. I stepped in front of my wife and stepson, looked straight in the dog's eyes and didn't so much as flinch. She eventually got the point and trotted off in a huff.

Those two ladies mentioned in another post at least were responsible enough to keep their dog on a leash. I've known some pretty irresponsible owners who let their pets run free range in spite of PA having a state-wide leash law. I'm more worried about off-leash dogs than Pit Bulls as a breed.

I am glad to hear that you are such a fearless warrior when it comes to dogs. Not everyone is. A retired NAVY SEAL was killed earlier this year by two pit bulls. I am not a retired SEAL. I am a disabled and retired. I really do not think everyone needs to pretend to have the bravado you express. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. I tend to be prepared to shoot is an agressive dog closes on me.

 

[Arc Angel]

Thank you for holding your fire. As usual it's the owner and not the Bulldog who's most to blame. I get sick and tired of these threads; I really do! I, also, hate the always skewered subject matter: i.e., Demonized Pit Bulldogs brought to you courtesy of the televised evening news!

Why is it that every heroic wannabe with an EDC always seems to be out there looking for a target; and, voilà, Pit Bulldogs are the inevitable target-of-choice?

I have reason to believe that, more than likely, I'd be dead right now if it weren't for the intervention of two Pit Bulldogs who saved both myself and my wife from certain harm during a sudden invasion of our home back in 1990.

(That's a lot of living the both of us might never have had if it weren't for those two Pit Bulldogs, and what they did for us!)

 

[TexasArmed]

Of course if i am threatened by a dog with attack on my property or public property in Texas I will shoot the dog before I allow it to bite me. Texas
has a state leash law, but there seems to be a free bite law where the
dog gets one free bite, and the owner not being held liable for the damage
a dog does. If a dog bites someone who is diabetic it costs the state a
lot of money for medical treatment that someone has to pay for.
A dog may be shot and killed without liability to the person shooting
the dog under these statutes in Texas. Since you can't be sure that
a dog owner is going to pay the damages, and if I have no knowledge
regarding the dog's history, my rule would be to shoot the dog rather
than let it bite me, causing medical bills the state is going to have a
hard time collecting from the dog owner. Best for the owner to keep
the dog off public property.

a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:

(1) any person witnessing the attack; or

(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

 

[cmort666]

As usual it's the owner and not the Bulldog who's most to blame.

Quite possibly true, but certainly irrelevant.

If you raise your teenage son to be an armed robber, that's YOUR fault. I'll still shoot him until he's no longer a threat if he tries to rob me. If I'd shoot your kid for being an immediate and credible threat to me, there's no doubt about your dog. I don't have to wait for your boy to beat, stab or shoot me and I don't have to wait for your dog to bite me.

Whoever's fault it is in either case, it most certainly is not MINE and I will not assume ANY risk to protect somebody else (or their animals or offspring) from THEIR bad choices.

 

[Gulfecho]

The Anatomy of a Pit bull

I believe you did the right thing.

The problem is really threefold:The Pit bull breed, mentality of the owner, and their rise in popularity. National Geographic conducted a study in which they measured a Pits biting force, 250 lbs psi. Not that of a Rottweiler but bone crushing none the less. In a report called Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 31, 2014, the Pit is attributed to far more attacks on humans than any other breed. I tend to question the mentality of an owner of such an aggressive animal. Lastly, their rise in popularity. More Pit bulls = more attacks. I give a wide berth whenever possible.

 

[Rick H.]

Lots of info in this thread, however there are a couple of things missing. You ARE justified in shooting an animal, or human, if YOU believe your life is in danger of death or great bodily harm. Not only can a pit bull hurt you, it can kill you as shown by many documented cases of attacks by these dogs. Saying you have to be bit by one of these dogs before you can react is nonsense and akin to saying you have to be shot before you can respond to the threat. Contrary to some popular belief and in my personal experience, a pit bull is a time bomb if it is being handled by someone that can't control it and most owners and handlers can't, especially if it is not on a leash. People that say these dogs are kind and loving are the same people that think bears really do talk and dance.

I worked as a cop for over 30 years and the vast majority of serious dog bite cases were committed by pit bulls. Certainly there were other dog bite cases, but pit bull attacks were the worst by far. My wife is an N.P. in the emergency room at a children's hospital and even I am amazed by the number of dog bite cases she sees and the majority involve pit bulls. Owners of these animals are, for lack of a better word, careless. They also seem oblivious to the damage these dogs inflict especially on children. A pit bull will rip a kids face off in a heartbeat and go back for more.

So as you can tell, I have no love at all for pit bulls. I have personally seen the damage they do and had one turned loose on me on a traffic stop long ago. They are dangerous animals that can turn on you or even their alleged handler/owner in a flash. If you have to take action to protect yourself or someone else do it, but remember that you felt your life or the life of someone else was in danger.

Rick H.

 

[Mainsail]

Before we get too sidetracked on specific breeds- I will mention the last dog that bit me was a very beautiful collie. Longish story but I was riding my bike through Garfield Park in Tacoma when a collie (off leash) jumped up and began chasing me, snarling and snapping. It got a piece of my left knee and I locked up the brakes, kicked out of the pedals, and drew a 9mm Sig P239. I had a great sight picture and was taking up the lack for the first DA shot when the dog turned and trotted away. I had a trickle of blood running down my leg into my sock.

I rode home (nearby) to treat the wound and heard on the scanner a MWAG call at the park, so I rode back. Cops didn't come but the owner ran over to apologize. I think she was worried her dog might get taken away when she saw me return. She launched into this long story about how she was on assistance and suing her wouldn't get me anything. She never saw the P239 I was carrying openly on my right hip, and hadn't seen me almost shoot the dog earlier.

A Tacoma animal control officer would tell me later that it would have been a 'good shoot' had I fired. I'm glad I didn't- not something that the kids playing over on the other side of the park would have understood. I picked up some pepper-spray for my bike rides.

All that to say- there is not any deep reasoning going on in a dog's brain; they are a product of instinct, conditioning, and training. In the case of the collie, it saw my legs pedaling and its herding instinct completely overrode everything it had ever been taught. In the moment all I knew was the snarling and snapping, and eventually a bite; and I was responding to that behavior. The dog was nano-meters of trigger pull away from a face-full of 147gr HSTs, but its turning away vs towards me had me back off the pull.

Other breeds are different only in the instinct they carry, the conditioning they've experienced, and the training they've received.

 

[samnev]

I live on a 12 acre parcel. The property next door is inhabited by a mix of undesirables (tweakers). The actual renter is an alright guy, but some that stop by, not so much.

He's had a woman hanging around and she has a Pitbull. Yesterday I was walking my fence line with my Shepard mix. I saw the woman and her dog in the field adjacent to mine. The dog was going away from her and I tried to get her attention to contain her dog.
As I did, the dog spotted mine and I took control of my dog. The pitbull started across the field in my direction. I put my arm around my dogs neck as the pitbull came in. Ruger Mark II in my other hand.
The dog took one second and attacked. I had steel toed boots on and fended off two surges. He stepped back and I had him point blank with the safety off. He responded to the woman calling him off. I lowered my gun and let him live.

I know the owner of the property and called to report the problem. He came over immediately and told them the dog had to go.

If I see the dog again on my property I will drop it on the spot.

How would you react?

I love dogs but in the case of that Pit Bull i'd drop it on the spot just as you said.

 

[cmort666]

Lots of info in this thread, however there are a couple of things missing. You ARE justified in shooting an animal, or human, if YOU believe your life is in danger of death or great bodily harm.

It has to be a REASONABLE belief, but the point is well taken.

An unrestrained dog aggressively charging you on public or your own property meets that requirement.

 

[jag312]

Texas has a one free bite law? I guess they never saw a dog like this.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYbM9O0C8UU[/ame]