ATTN. 10XX Auto Owners, Production Has Started - .40 S&W & .357 SIG Barrels

[Shadow1006]

Thanks, for the picture update, that is so neat. Lookig great!

BTW, I just lit off a 357Sig with Zero 121gr JHP (0.356" these were for 38 Super), 10.8 grs of Blue Dot @ 1331 fps, from the 3.78" Lone Wolf Dist. conversion which function well with the 21lb spring also. This exploded & penetrated two one gallon jugs of water (12" of water) and found the slug with a perfect mushroom 0.680" & 100% weight retension in the dirt berm about 3". Man I like this Glock-29!

After seeing the picture of the barrel progress, I am fired up to test in the 357 Sig conversion in the S&W 10xx series, when they arrive!

 

[Shadow1006]

I'm am so looking forward to getting my conversion barrels from Bad_Man_One for my S&W 10xx series pistols.

Here are the conversions for my Glock 29...

 

[g_conway]

Hi all, New member here. I found the forum after contacting Bad_Man_One through a web search. I have a 1006 and have indicated my desire to get a 5" 40 cal barrel. In his posts he indicated 4 levels of barrel fit. Could someone please give examples of accuracy effects of these options? I think I could handle the #2 option by myself, but I do not have the equipment or skill level to do 3 or 4 myself. I am a home defense / casual target shooter user. Any recomendations / comments / opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Gerry

 

[bad_man_ one]

Hi all, New member here. I found the forum after contacting Bad_Man_One through a web search. I have a 1006 and have indicated my desire to get a 5" 40 cal barrel. In his posts he indicated 4 levels of barrel fit. Could someone please give examples of accuracy effects of these options? I think I could handle the #2 option by myself, but I do not have the equipment or skill level to do 3 or 4 myself. I am a home defense / casual target shooter user. Any recomendations / comments / opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Gerry

Hey G,
Just sent a pm.

For "Target shooting and home defense" most go with a "#1 fit - drop in"
If you are capable of polishing the spherical diameter down a little then I recommend option #2.
It does not cost any more, but you have to be very careful as to not remove to much.

Fit option #1 to allow for a drop in fit, I have to give .001" to .0015" clearance to fit all guns.
Based on the guns that I have been able to check the size of the barrel bushings.
There will be tighter ones and looser ones, I do not know what S&W was trying to hold for tolerance of the bushing.

If you look at the length of a 5.00" barrel compared to a target @ 50 ft,
It reduces accuracy at 50 ft. by about 1/8" to 3/16" by the math based on similar triangles.

.001" is to 5.00" as .120" is to 600 " (50 ft) and so on.

Regards,
BM1

 

[g_conway]

Got your PM and undertand front bushing issue.
Options 3 or 4 sound more complex... what do they bring to the party. I assume there must be a good reason for doing them, I would just like to know what that is?

 

[Shadow1006]

Keep the faith, though.
So far, I am always plugging along in the correct direction.

Regards,
BM1

Here is a quick picture of a rough milled part, just to "wet the whistle".

Sort of bumping this post to the top...

 

[g_conway]

Based on email from S&W, I put 100 rnds of 40cal through my 1006 on Wednesday. No problems with fire or feed with one exception. I limp-wristed one to see what would happen and got a no feed. I am still going to buy the 40 barrel from bad_man_one for two reasons:

1. The gun was absolutly filthy after 100 rnds of 40 and 100 of 10. Looked more like 500.

2. just seems safer and can only increase value of gun to have 2 option barrels.

Bad... looking forward to playing with the new barrel.
Gerry

 

[remat457]

Based on email from S&W

Can you elaborate what this email said and who it was from?

 

[g_conway]

Below is a text copy of the email that was sent back and forth between myself and S&W customer support.
Read from bottom up to see continuity.

From: Degray, Don <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 12:20 PM
To: Gerry Conway
Subject: RE: Re my 1006

Gerry,

Best thing is just one round test. The casings are the same diameter.

Don

From: Gerry Conway [mailto:deleted]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:03 PM
To: Degray, Don
Subject: RE: Re my 1006

Thank you for the quick response!
One further related question:
I am seeing a lot of internet posts warning of "head space" issues and damage
to the 1006 as a result, when using 40 cal. Is that just BS?
are there any issues to look out for when putting 40 cal through a 1006?


Gerry

From: Degray, Don [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 7:35 AM
To: Gerry Conway
Subject: RE: Re my 1006

Gerry,

You can shoot 40cal in a 10mm.

Don

From: Gerry Conway [mailto:deleted]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:33 PM
To: Smith & Wesson Support
Subject: Re my 1006

Due to limitations on ammo, I am trying to find out if my 1006 can safely fire 40 cal ammo?
if not, is there a way to purchase a conversion kit to get to 40 cal (or any other common caliber?)

Thank you in advance for any assistance.


Gerry

 

[bad_man_ one]

Guys,
If/when you fire .40 cal in a 10 m.m., it will work.
But,
Since your not locating the brass from the end of the case, you risk breaking your extractor.
That's what's holding it from dropping in too deep.
You will also get a carbon build up and then might not be able to drop in a 10 m.m. without a good chamber cleaning.
Regards,
BM1

 

[Shadow1006]

There is some degradation of performance shooting the 40S&W cartridge inside the 10mm chamber because of the amount of bullet jump to engage the rifling to seal the bore.

The by passing of gases, doesn't allow for full development of pressures, this leads to incompletely burning the powder and this leads to the drity burn and heavy sooting which was seen in Gerry Conway test.

By shooting the 40S&W cartridge in the proper chamber such as a conversion barrel maintains the true performance. Adds to the safety/reliability and longevety of the pistol over all! Cleaner pistol too!

 

[Reloader Fred]

I'm truly surprised that a company rep would recommend shooting a cartridge in a pistol that said pistol wasn't designed, or chambered, for. I'm quite certain that his bosses don't know he's giving out this kind of advice. It goes against everything they print in their company literature and the warnings posted in the instructions for their products.

With this said, let me say that I did do an experiment a couple of years ago, which I posted on the CZClone Forum, where I'm a moderator. In that experiment, I fired 9x19 ammunition in a 9x21 barrel, 9x19 and 9x21 ammunition in a .38 Super barrel and .40 S&W ammunition in a 10mm barrel. They all fired and functioned just fine, but I don't recommend doing this. There is much too much stress on the extractor, which is the only thing holding the casing against the boltface.

I have regularly fired 9x23 Winchester ammunition in a .38 Super barrel, since the main difference is a tapered case vs. a straight case, but the lengths are identical. The 9x23 Winchester case is so thick that even after firing in a .38 Super barrel, the expended, unsized, case will still drop into a 9x23 case gauge, unlike a .38 Super case. Once again, I don't recommend this practice to anyone.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[g_conway]

As stated in my earlier post, the barrel was very dirty, and that is why I am still buying the barrel from BM1.

Just to clarify... the reason I sent the email to S&W in the first place is that I remember the salesman at the gun shop showing me that the 10xx series was advertised as dual capability 10mm/40cal by S&W in early literature.

the MANUAL states "no cartridge except those stamped on the barrel should be used." This warning is in the but-covering legalese section of the manul.

I am not trying to start an argument here, just passing along the information.
Gerry

 

[remat457]

I am not trying to start an argument here, just passing along the information.
Gerry

I appreciate you posting the info. I am just a little surprised at S&W which is usually very conservative from a liability standpoint. The rep's statement that it is best to try one round first tells me that it is not a "best" practice

 

[g_conway]

You bring up an interesting point. In the manuals S&W says...
DO NOT use +P or +P+ rounds; however, the REASON given is not the preasure generated by these rounds, but the "unreliable variations" in these types of rounds. I have to admit that I was supprised by the initial responce from S&W. That is why I sent the email back asking for clarificaton.

I will also tell you that I used a different email address to ask the same basic question and got the same basic responce from a different S&W employee.

I am by far no expert, so this is just my opinion without any qualification to back it up: I would use 40 cal through my 1006 without hesitation if 10mm ammo was not available. I will NOT use 40 cal now because it is an un-necessary risk at this time. If for any reason BM1 cannot provide the barrels as discussed; I would sell my 1006 and replace with a 40 cal.

Gerry

 

[Shadow1006]

Why don't you take up handloading instead of selling you S&W1006? With the same set of dies you can load the 10mm and the 40S&W cartridges...You can adjust your loadings accordingly to suit your needs for your pistols. There are many options as far as presses go fit your budget and needs.

I was handloading way before the 10mm cartridge came out, fantastic hobby BTW. I have loaded for my 1006 from day one developed loads using certain powders before they were listed in the normal handloading manuals. More recently I have added the 9x25Dillon (10mm necked down to 9mm) and the 357Sig (40S&W necked down to 9mm) to my handloading activities. I have loaded many from mild to extremely wild ballistic performance safely over the past 30+ years. You set your own quality controls to build ammunition that can deliver match grade performance.

BM1 is also making a few barrels for me, to add to my 10xx series to add even more flexibility to the S&W platform!

Heck, if you decide not to load your own, send me your brass, so I can play a little more! I'll provide you my address and reimburse you the shipping!

 

[g_conway]

Actually, I reloaded for years. My issues are as follows:
1. I live in California so…
a) Outside shooting areas are sparse. (San Diego)
b) Recovering "range brass" is difficult at best.
c) The cost of New "brass / bullet" is still quite expensive in 10mm
d) Can't use reloads for self-defense (lawsuits)
e) I was not "consistent" enough in my reloading.

2. Cost currently a box of 50 10mm 180 grn JHP runs $37.00 before tax
3. Pretty much the only 10mm easily available is the above.
4. 40 cal JHP runs about 23-25 per box. FMJ /wad-cutter are about 20.

I enjoyed reloading ( it felt peaceful to me) but that appeared to be the only plus.

I appreciate all the helpful advice. You guys on this site seem to be more concerned with passing information and being helpful, with reasonable discussions rather than "mine is bigger than yours (no pun intended) wars." I realize I am new and I appreciate the fact that "newbies" seem to be treated with the same consideration as long time posters. If anyone knows places for inexpensive 10 brass or bullets, please let me know.

Gerry

 

[Reloader Fred]

Dan & Kay Scharch (Top Brass) make 10mm brass that is on a par with the best. They currently have it in stock: Untitled Document

As for bullets, there are numerous companies making bullets for the .40/10mm calibers, i.e.; Berry's, Rainier, Montana Gold, etc. There are also numerous companies casting excellent bullets for these calibers. One I would recommend is Missouri Bullet Company: Missouri Bullet Company

I'm still shaking my head at S&W recommending shooting .40 S&W in a 10mm barrel...... No argument from me, just shaking my head. I'll have to ask them about that at the SHOT Show this coming January.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[g_conway]

I guess I should have been more specific, or at least given more thought to the question before posting...
I live in San Diego, California. The cost of shipping would drive the prices up unless buying "LARGE" quantities.

Any suggestions that would be more "local?"

 

[Shadow1006]

While shipping has been steadly going up the price of fuel has made driving around looking cost prohibitive as well, that and things like taxes added for local sales, make buying thru the mail somewhat even out!

Haz-mat shipping that's another situation altogether...