luvsmiths
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25% less than hammer. If they haven't gone up.
When all added up RIA makes about 45% on their "sales"
No thanks.
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Auction fees
- Thread starter Flygas
- Start date
25% less than hammer. If they haven't gone up.
When all added up RIA makes about 45% on their "sales"
No thanks.
RIAC rip off!
I just won a J frame, for my collection, that I have been trying to find for awhile now! The gun I wanted was in a lot of 3 different J frames. The hammer price was $1800.00 and my invoice was $2473.34! That's over 1/3 of the hammer price! I will be receiving 3 guns, one of which I really want! This means I need to sell two of the guns in order to recoup some of the money I spent. Basically I spent $824.44 per gun and two of these J frames are not worth that amount. The third gun is worth a little more than the $824.44. I have a chance in not having paid too much over market on my prize. Now the question I have, will I be breaking a BATF regulation by selling the two guns, without and FFL, I don't want and probably at a loss on paper?
jcelect
I just won a J frame, for my collection, that I have been trying to find for awhile now! The gun I wanted was in a lot of 3 different J frames. The hammer price was $1800.00 and my invoice was $2473.34! That's over 1/3 of the hammer price! I will be receiving 3 guns, one of which I really want! This means I need to sell two of the guns in order to recoup some of the money I spent. Basically I spent $824.44 per gun and two of these J frames are not worth that amount. The third gun is worth a little more than the $824.44. I have a chance in not having paid too much over market on my prize. Now the question I have, will I be breaking a BATF regulation by selling the two guns, without and FFL, I don't want and probably at a loss on paper?
jcelect
Leroy Thompson
Member
Carol Watson has lower fees, is reputable, and has good Smith & Wessons
The combining of desirable guns with less so ones in one lot is irritating although I understand why it is done.
Breaking a BATF regulation by selling the two you don't want? None of which I'm aware. I'm not familiar with Ohio laws but here in Texas selling guns to other Texas residents is a little like selling hammers, no paperwork required, although I might hold them awhile before heading to a gun show.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
If you sell them thru an FFL, meaning that the buyer competes the 4473, there is no issue whatsoever. Face to face sales like those legal in Texas, Florida, and some other states, not sure.
In my case, I believe the 32 target and the 38RP are worth enough that I will not be under water if I sell the 32HE. But it is certainly a risk when buying lots like this.
That’s exactly why I don’t buy from auctions. If I can’t find it locally at shows, shops, swap meets, etc., I go without. Plus, the hunt is 50% of the experience.
Almost certain if you intend to sell out-of-state. Most states now require handguns to be sent to an FFL and not the buyer. You have to read Ohio laws, since a few states still allow person-to-person handgun sales, but I doubt there are more than a handful left.
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Auction houses are in business. They have buildings, lots of employees and lots of bills. Yes, they charge you to sell, catalog, and handle your guns, yes they charge you to buy the guns too. I think there are a lot of decent deals in the RIA Sporting and Collector events. I just got 3 at the most recent one, all S&W, all 5 screw N-frames that are rarely found in shows or stores anymore. Since I am a Texan, I take my stuff home with me after the auction, no shipping, transfer, or insurance. I make a chart of bidding price and price+buyer premium+TX sales tax, so I know what I am actually bidding. All 3 guns I won were hundreds less than the values in SCSW 4.
I was exploring the possibility of auctioning-off my collection of some 347 vintage S&Ws, Brownings, Colts and Winchesters most of which are sitting in their original correct boxes. I called two auction houses - Morphy and RIA about traveling to my home and picking up all of them for one of their auctions last year.
The discussion over the phone eventually got around to what would happen to the pieces that didn't sell and had to be returned to me. What I was told really blew me away - that is, that I would have to do an ATF Form 4473 and undergo a background check on EACH one of them! On top of that, the firearms would have to be returned to an FFL holder who would charge me his/her usual fee to execute the 4473s and hand them back to me even though I executed the 4473s many moons ago when I acquired them. Anyone ever heard of such a thing when trying to sell one's collection through an auction house? Like I said, I was flabbergasted in hearing this from the folks at each of these auction houses so I backed-off on the idea.
The discussion over the phone eventually got around to what would happen to the pieces that didn't sell and had to be returned to me. What I was told really blew me away - that is, that I would have to do an ATF Form 4473 and undergo a background check on EACH one of them! On top of that, the firearms would have to be returned to an FFL holder who would charge me his/her usual fee to execute the 4473s and hand them back to me even though I executed the 4473s many moons ago when I acquired them. Anyone ever heard of such a thing when trying to sell one's collection through an auction house? Like I said, I was flabbergasted in hearing this from the folks at each of these auction houses so I backed-off on the idea.
I'm not surprised, and you can thank the federal government. I'm sure both of those entities hold FFLs. When you turn them over to them to sell, you are essentially transferring those guns to them. That's pretty much how it works were you to give the guns to your LGS to sell it on consignment. The return to you is another transfer.
With that number of guns to sell, I would suggest you get an FFL. Then you can transfer to the auction company and receive them back. You'll have to keep a "bound book" for transactions out and back in, but that's not a pain.
LVSteve
Member
I think that they like having you on the phone. That is the only way that I bid, since I cannot be there in person. It is fun to be on the phone and have the internet up watching the auction. It almost feels like you are there. Phone bidding adds the human element to the auction and alows for more of the "fever" to infect you over the phone... And it is a service provided to at no additional charge. I won a few items at this last RIA auction and with payment via cashiers check, money order or wire, my out the door to my dealer price was 29% more than the Hammer price.
When I am bidding or planning to bid, I use a 30% total premium in calculating what I am willing to bid. But sometimes on the phone, even I get caught in the fever and pay more than I thought I should...
That said, my experience is that RIA packs well, communicates professionally and treats its customers with respect. What I paid soon gets forgotten when I bring my treasures home.
NOTE: I expect to pay more when I bid at places like RIA - the photography, advertising, marketing, mailing, emailing and other promotion takes time and costs money. They also display all of the guns for staffed in-person previews. They hire professional auctioneers, spotters and other administrative staff. They invoice, wrap, package and facilitate the legal transfer of Firearms. As was said above, lots of cool stuff comes to auction. That was particularly true this last RIA auction with a bunch of tastefully modified one-of-a-kind S&Ws auctioned from the Jon Maxwell collection. Those types of guns do NOT appeal to everyone, nor are they available for sale that often. I personally like tastefully modified guns (especially engraved ones
). I am aware that some of the items from this last RIA Auction landed with members of this forum, and I am hopeful that we will see and learn more about them as the owners post their new-to-them gems here.
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That’s almost impossible to believe. Hundreds less all in? I’ve found the SCSW values to be understated compared to real world selling prices from the day it was published.
stanmerrell
Member
I agree. There's many good local avenues to sell average pieces. The Classified forum here is a better alternative many times. But once in a while you need maximum exposure for truly rare stuff. That's the only time I see as worth consigning to an auction house.
Yes, saw that happen and with a bad twist..... A local FFL took about a hundred firearms in on consignment from a guy who inherited them. A lot of the good ones (which were quite few in the big batch) sold quickly to store employees and regular customers. The other 80 or so started growing mold and collecting dust. Eventually the consignor soured on the arrangement and wanted the remaining inventory back. The FFL advised him of the paperwork requirements, etc. and proceeded to go ahead with the returns. One big hitch.... the seller didn't pass the background check. That mess persisted for quite some time and the inventory stayed with the FFL at his retail gun shop.
BaylorCattleGuy
Member
I was at the sale on Friday and talked with a rep about consigning an STI 2011 and he told me their commission was 25%. Passed on the idea as I didn’t figure I’d net much on the deal.
There is one auction house, near local to me, that has been very accommodating. Will Sullivan auctions, in Carthage IL. He is from a large family of auctioneers, and has specialized in Firearms only, (with some Militaria also). He does charge sales tax, as he is obligated to. He advertises Free Shipping. His buyers premium is currently 15% I believe, but for locals that pick up items only 10%. He usually shows about 20 or more pictures of each gun and very seldom includes more than one gun per auction item. I do not think he charges any Cr Card fee's.
With my C&R, and drive only 35 miles to pick up, the costs have been very reasonable for me.
He has 4 auctions per year, last discussion, 70% have been sent to out of area buyers. He has up to 8,000 or more potential buyers registered in auctions.
I've been dealing with him for 12-15 years, (back when he had in person auctions), and all very satisfactory.
His website is Firearms & Militaria Auctions - Will Sullivan Auction Co. There is no auction currently, the summer just recently completed. His Winter auction is scheduled for Sat Dec. 7 the. He will start having guns listed around about the 2nd week of Nov. I have seen guns sales up to $20,000, but it seems every time I'm selling the sales are a lot lower than normal, (or maybe I'm expecting too much). You can review past auction sales at his website.
I am in no way affiliated with him other than a satisfied customer.
With my C&R, and drive only 35 miles to pick up, the costs have been very reasonable for me.
He has 4 auctions per year, last discussion, 70% have been sent to out of area buyers. He has up to 8,000 or more potential buyers registered in auctions.
I've been dealing with him for 12-15 years, (back when he had in person auctions), and all very satisfactory.
His website is Firearms & Militaria Auctions - Will Sullivan Auction Co. There is no auction currently, the summer just recently completed. His Winter auction is scheduled for Sat Dec. 7 the. He will start having guns listed around about the 2nd week of Nov. I have seen guns sales up to $20,000, but it seems every time I'm selling the sales are a lot lower than normal, (or maybe I'm expecting too much). You can review past auction sales at his website.
I am in no way affiliated with him other than a satisfied customer.
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It is simply to comply with the laws of your state, the laws of Morphy's state, or an FFL regulation. I do not believe a non-FFL holder interstate can receive a handgun from anyone legally. This document should help with the answer.
https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download
https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download
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