Auction Find

[m-1911]

I got home from Tulsa on Monday night and went to a gun auction yesterday, where I picked up this Model 1905 for $160. It was missing the lanyard swivel, but I had an original to replace it with. It is a 4 inch model in 38 S&W and is British proofed. Serial number is 686826 which is only 129 serial numbers away from 686697 which I also have. 686697 was part of a May 3, 1940 shipment to Union of South Africa. So since the guns are identical, I assume this one was also part of the same shipment.

 

[deanodog]

Nice catch. I love those old timers with the tapered barrels.

 

[mikepriwer]

In the picture, the barrel looks like it's a parkerized-like finish, but
the rest of the gun looks like a polished blue ? Is that just an artifact
of the photo ?

Was there no one else at the auction who was interested, or is this
price close to being realistic ? Was this close to what you paid for
the other one ?

I wonder how many of these pre-Victory lend-lease guns are still
around. They seem to be turning up somewhat frequently. There
was probably several hundred thousand of them made,so maybe that
is not surprising.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[DCWilson]

Historical Aside

A clarification of terminology: The Lend-Lease Act wasn't signed into law until Spring of 1941, so technically the South African .38/200s were part of an independent purchase contract under the prevailing cash-and-carry provisions. I have it in mind that they were the earliest .38/200 contract guns, but I don't know if that is correct. If that is true, these K-200s with the 686xxx serial numbers should be very collectible as earliest examples of a specific model. The South African contract was for either 1000 or 1200 guns; I have seen both figures. I think the deliveries to Britain started with serial numbers around 700,000 about a month after the SA shipment. Those would have to have been been cash-and-carry transactions, too.

I wouldn't mind having one of these South African revolvers some day.

 

[mikepriwer]

I wouldn't mind having one of these South African revolvers some day.

Note to David:

Check with Gary Grace - he apparently has some in inventory !

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[opoefc]

The South African shipments were for 13,847 4 in. .38/200 caliber revolvers and 7,500 5 in. .38/200 revolvers . Many went through John Block & Co. Pier 14, NYC, a freight agent. The first "shipment" ( or contract) was on Feb. 19, 1940 for 8,800 guns , 2nd "shipment" on Sept 9. 1940 for 5.047 gun. Both of these shipments were for 4 in. revolvers. 3rd "shipment" was June 7, 1941 for 7,500 5 in. revolvers. This information is from Neal & Jinks book. Letters on these guns do not always reflect the above ship dates. For example, # 696338 letters as shipped on May 3, 1940 and is a 4 in. gun. 686,697 and 686887 letter as May 22, 1940 as part of a 1400 gun shipment. 686718, 687083 and 687110 were in the May 3rd shipment as part of a 1,000 gun shipment to the Director General of the Directorate of War Supplies., Union of South Africa. 688128 is a 4 in, shipped June 4, 1940. 690876 was shipped July 8, 1940, and 693675 was shipped in July also. My guess as to why the individual guns letter with different ship dates that the overall count of 13,847 guns for the three shipments, is that the three shipment dates are invoice or contract dates. Maybe Roy can comment on that. Hope this helps, Ed.

 

[m-1911]

In the picture, the barrel looks like it's a parkerized-like finish, but
the rest of the gun looks like a polished blue ? Is that just an artifact
of the photo ?

Was there no one else at the auction who was interested, or is this
price close to being realistic ? Was this close to what you paid for
the other one ?

I wonder how many of these pre-Victory lend-lease guns are still
around. They seem to be turning up somewhat frequently. There
was probably several hundred thousand of them made,so maybe that
is not surprising.


Mike
The whole gun is blue and I guess it is just the angle of the photo. I got my other one a year ago and it came with a letter, I got it for $450 shipped. I was really surprised that the price was so low as I would have paid more for it if I had to. I would also be interested in knowing what the going price seems to be for one of these SA guns.
It is interesting to note that any of these that I have seen, do not have import stamps so they probably got here before 1968.

 

[medxam]

Man, would I like to have one of those, shipped just 4 days before my birth on May 7, 1940. How do I get in touch with Gary Grace?

Buddy Garrett
SMCA # 1719