Ayoob Column In American Handgunner

[max]

The current edition of AH has one of the best articles I have ever read and I have been a subscriber since the early 80's. If you CCW, you really need to read this!

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/AyoobFiles.html

 

[cshoff]

That is the typical excellent, reasoned, and well researched writing I have come to expect from Mr. Ayoob. A very good article, indeed, and an excellent story. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Centenniel]

Mr. Ayoob remains a very knowledgeable and experienced gun writer. His work is worth reading and his advise is worth heeding. Excellent article.

 

[Filbird]

This is the second piece I've seen here (first piece was a video linked to this part of the forum, an interview with an older navy veteran who was a landlord and had to fight off a home invasion) where the shooter was very proficient, packed a large caliber semi-auto (first was a .40, this one was a .45), and emptied the thing at two assailants. I believe both died in the first story, and of course one died here (and the second should have died, considering where he was hit).

It makes me wonder if those of us who are enamored of j-frame .38's are living dangerously? Yes, of course, just two stories plucked from hundreds, I know... but I often read statements like, "if you can't handle the situation in 5 shots you shouldn't be out there with a gun," and here we have a well-trained man who used all 8 shots of his .45 and could have used more.

Just makes me wonder... I have not yet received my CCW (keep checking the mail box every day!), still have more pistol testing and training to do before I'll feel comfortable, informed, and proficient, and I am thinking that I will explore, at least, some larger bore, or larger capacity firearms.

 

[GoHogs]

Been reading Mas for many, many years.
Like an old and trusted friend, he rarely disappoints.

 

[mnhntr]

excellent read for sure. And as to Filbirds response, I have wondered the same thing. As a revolver shooter who regularly packs a 6 shooter or once in a while a 5 shooter, I can say after much practice I feel confident in fast reloads and accurate shots. If you like the revolver you carry, practice for such situtations and try to find a USPSA club near you. This has some of the best practice for CCW.

 

[Spotteddog]

It's been so long since I've had a subscription to anything that I no longer know the answer to this. Is this the only magazine Mas writes for currently? If he's a regular in this or others, I just may change that status! Anyone know?

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by Filbird:
It makes me wonder if those of us who are enamored of j-frame .38's are living dangerously? Yes, of course, just two stories plucked from hundreds, I know... but I often read statements like, "if you can't handle the situation in 5 shots you shouldn't be out there with a gun," and here we have a well-trained man who used all 8 shots of his .45 and could have used more.

There's a recurrent theme of the point of some posters that a J frame is at its best as a BUG, and not a primary carry. Flop Shank writes about this with some regularity, though a careful persusal will reveal other guys carrying all manner of 1911s, chopped (and sometimes unchopped) N frame revolvers, Glocks, etc. It's the light and simple (and possibly naive) vs. the "paranoids" (who only have to be right once to have it really pay off...).

 

[cmort666]

Ayoob posts periodically on The High Road. I don't always agree with what he says, but I've never seen him post anything that I consider foolish. At worst, he overestimates the average person's ability to coherently recite a post-shooting "script" to the cops.

You would do well to take most of his advice to heart.

 

[ENH]

Mas Ayoob is also a member of this forum and posts occasionally. I missed a chance to take one of his classes a few years ago with a friend. I dearly wish I had canceled previous commitments and had attended. Read his books there is a wealth of information to be had.

 

[safearm]

It makes me wonder if those of us who are enamored of j-frame .38's are living dangerously?

My $.02 is that it's better to have a J-frame in your pocket than a custom .45 Auto in the gun safe. There will always be times and places where you can't carry what you WANT to carry, so you make the compromise to carry what you can.

 

[38-44HD45]

Just a few comments: Mas's article is excellent, as usual. I have the privilege of participating in an "invitation only" forum with him and a few others, and it has been a delight.

The hollywooders like to say, "You can never be too thin or too rich." I'd add, you can never have too many rounds available when you are a potential target. While one who carries only a 5-shot J-frame is in far better shape than those who carry nothing, more is better.

I typically carry at least two guns, with a 9x23 holding 9 or 10 rounds, depending on which gun I pick on a given day, and a 5 or 6 shot .38 or .357 revolver as backup. I carry two spare mags holding 9 rounds each for the primary, and a speed strip for the revolver. Why? Because I might need them. Likely? Of course not.

I get annoyed with folks' misuse of the term "paranoid." Paranoia is fear of that which cannot happen, or that which is so improbable as to be essentially statistically impossible. Anyone who reads Mas's columns, or the newspaper, or watches the news on TV should be able to see that we are not carrying whatever we carry out of fear of the impossible, but concern about the improbable, but certainly possible events we read and hear about. Depending on where you live, such events may not even be improbable.

Spot, Mas writes columns in every issue of American Handgunner, and for Combat Handguns. There may be others, but those are the ones I see.

 

[OLD208X3A]

I recently read an article of his about carrying the .38 snubby and it was very informative. He wrote about "putting his money where his mouth was" by attending a pistol course with a snubby (as he'd advocated as a primary carry). He used two snub-nosed .38s in the course to keep up with the 10-round course of fire. He stated that, with practice (ain't that always the way), he didn't feel under-gunned at all and did quite well in the course. I carry one on occasion with a speed strip. As with any other gun; I hope I never need it. Good stuff!

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by safearm:

It makes me wonder if those of us who are enamored of j-frame .38's are living dangerously?

My $.02 is that it's better to have a J-frame in your pocket than a custom .45 Auto in the gun safe. There will always be times and places where you can't carry what you WANT to carry, so you make the compromise to carry what you can.

I agree.

When I need deep concealment, I often carry a P3AT and a NAA .22 mini or Black Widow as a BUG. I never carry a .380 as a primary when I don't have to. Always carry as much gun as you can. If you can, you should be carrying a full size pistol in a full power service caliber (9mm, .38 +P or more powerful). You should also carry a BUG available to the weak hand. If you don't, that's your call. I don't rip on guys who pack, even if it's a NAA .22 short. I encourage them to carry more, but the choice is theirs.

The firepower I carry isn't because of paranoia. It's because I wish all good citizens would. Why? I'm fed up with crime. I just do my part, and honestly, I think things will get much worse before they get better.

 

[Filbird]

Very interesting thoughts here... A couple of more thoughts of my own.

First, I understand why some might not like the use of "paranoid" in GatorFarmer's post earlier, but that aside, I like his logic. It's easy to say, well, a j-frame will always be there, easy to throw in your pocket, what are the odds you'll need anything more, and easy to dismiss our more heavily armed colleagues as being "paranoid" (or, let us say more accurately, "more sensitive to the broad spectrum of possible defensive handgun situations"

). At the same time, these stories come up, and give the j-framers pause.

In the end, Old208x3a may have it right... no matter what you choose, it's practice that counts. You could put me in the same situation as the gentleman discussed in Ayoob's article, you could put an N-frame or 1911 in my hand, and if I have not practiced sufficiently with it, I may as well have a J-frame, or nothing at all. The overall lesson is not what the gentleman was carrying, but that he knew what he was carrying VERY WELL, and through its use, he saved his life and the life of the store manager.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by Filbird:
Very interesting thoughts here... A couple of more thoughts of my own.

First, I understand why some might not like the use of "paranoid" in GatorFarmer's post earlier, but that aside, I like his logic. It's easy to say, well, a j-frame will always be there, easy to throw in your pocket, what are the odds you'll need anything more, and easy to dismiss our more heavily armed colleagues as being "paranoid" (or, let us say more accurately, "more sensitive to the broad spectrum of possible defensive handgun situations"

). At the same time, these stories come up, and give the j-framers pause.

In the end, Old208x3a may have it right... no matter what you choose, it's practice that counts. You could put me in the same situation as the gentleman discussed in Ayoob's article, you could put an N-frame or 1911 in my hand, and if I have not practiced sufficiently with it, I may as well have a J-frame, or nothing at all. The overall lesson is not what the gentleman was carrying, but that he knew what he was carrying VERY WELL, and through its use, he saved his life and the life of the store manager.

I believe it was Jeff Cooper that used to say "You can't miss fast enough to win". That applies whether you have 5 shots at your disposal, or 45 shots at your disposal.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I put the quotation marks around "paranoid" for a reason. I don't really mind the term, as I find it amusing and simply answer it with the caveat I included - only have to be right once and it pays off. I'm one of the "paranoids" after all: multiple guns (2 or 3),body armor (my version of an oven mitt, i.e. bake cookies and you'll get burned without one), and even an Izzy bandage or two (blood loss = bad).

Though my therapist did say that I wasn't a true paranoid, I just adapted to life experiences. But I digress...

Maybe I should make it a tagline "Sure I'm paranoid, but I only have to be right once..."

 

[jaegan]

Originally posted by Filbird:
In the end, Old208x3a may have it right... no matter what you choose, it's practice that counts. You could put me in the same situation as the gentleman discussed in Ayoob's article, you could put an N-frame or 1911 in my hand, and if I have not practiced sufficiently with it, I may as well have a J-frame, or nothing at all. The overall lesson is not what the gentleman was carrying, but that he knew what he was carrying VERY WELL, and through its use, he saved his life and the life of the store manager.

Yes. I don't think the importance of practice can be overstated. Also, practice with what you carry (including at least some practice with full power ammo if you carry full power ammo.) As one of the other members taglines says "Shot placement is king, adequate penetration is queen, all else is angels dancing on the heads of pins."
Carry a 500, 45, 40, 9, 38, 380, 32, 25, 22 (insert your favorite caliber here)... just be proficient with it.

 

[The Rabbi]

First rule of a gunfight: have a gun. A j-frame is the gold standard of pocket "always" carry. It is also "5 for sure". I would rather have a gun that is going with me all the time, that packs a punch like a .45acp hardball, and requires the motor skills of a 5 year old (which is about all I could handle in that situation) than some hi-cap wundernine.
Other people have different opinions, that's what makes the world go round.

 

[Bear Country 88]

Originally posted by Spotteddog:
It's been so long since I've had a subscription to anything that I no longer know the answer to this. Is this the only magazine Mas writes for currently? If he's a regular in this or others, I just may change that status! Anyone know?

HERE IS HIS BLOG