photoman
Member
If you go with a J frame, I would recommend the Model 60. I think it would be advantageous having the single action option in the field.
Backpacking/Camping...Revolver advice
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Weight is always an issue for backpackers, but many backpackers ignore vital tactical issues to save a few ounces. I'd let the primary threats of wolves/black bears/drunken idiots should drive your choice.
The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you'll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but five shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. Anything adequate for bears or wolves would do for drunken college kids, so that's a wash.
Based on that, I'm thinking of a scandium 44 backed up by speedloaders or a scandium 45 ACP and moon clips. The scandium N-frames are only a few ounces heavier than the 640. The ammo is heavier, but you'll have the right thing when you need it.
After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.
Okie John
The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you'll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but five shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. Anything adequate for bears or wolves would do for drunken college kids, so that's a wash.
Based on that, I'm thinking of a scandium 44 backed up by speedloaders or a scandium 45 ACP and moon clips. The scandium N-frames are only a few ounces heavier than the 640. The ammo is heavier, but you'll have the right thing when you need it.
After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.
Okie John
snostud83
Member
I'm looking for a new revolver to take with me on a 60+ mile backpacking trip along the superior hiking trail (northern MN) but then to have as my go to camping gun. I take a few trips a year to the BWCA and voyagers Nat. park.
Weight is an issue as is caliber. I already know that I can't handle the magnum loads in the ultra light J frames, but .38+p is alright.
My first thought was to get a 442 or 642 and it could double as another city carry option, but then I'm thinking that I might want the .357mag so I'm also looking at the 640.
What are your thoughts?
There are black bear, wolves and moose...although they've never been an issue so far.
My only problem thus far has been with drunk jock type college kids and last year we had a feisty raccoon try to attack one of my friends.
I've thought about a pistol but I don't want to have to worry about it getting exposed to the element or getting submerged in water and not being able to clean/lube it for a week.
Thanks in advance!!
Weight is an issue as is caliber. I already know that I can't handle the magnum loads in the ultra light J frames, but .38+p is alright.
My first thought was to get a 442 or 642 and it could double as another city carry option, but then I'm thinking that I might want the .357mag so I'm also looking at the 640.
What are your thoughts?
There are black bear, wolves and moose...although they've never been an issue so far.
My only problem thus far has been with drunk jock type college kids and last year we had a feisty raccoon try to attack one of my friends.
I've thought about a pistol but I don't want to have to worry about it getting exposed to the element or getting submerged in water and not being able to clean/lube it for a week.
Thanks in advance!!
volgunner
Member
Among the choices you mention, I'd go with the 640. I'd also look at an SP101 or a 686 w/ the two and a half in. barrel if you're really going to load .357's.
SuperMan
Member
When backpacking, canoe tripping, fishing or boating my favorite fun is the S&W 60-10 (the new ones with the IL are the 60-15s). It has a 3" full underlug barrel and shoots as well with full .357s as does a 3" K-frame.
When backpacking I carry the gun and extra ammo in a pouch on the left side of the hipbelt. Doesn't alarm Greenies and is right there when I need it...
Ammo for penetration on bears would be the Fereral CastCore .357 Magnum. Right now I have some Sellier&Ballott 158 spire point fmj.
This gun has done a week on the St. John's River in Maine with 7/7 rain days as well as The Moose River trip just to name two...it has been soaked and not maintained till it arrived home with no damage...
As to weight...the extra pound means nothing if it could be your life.
Bob
When backpacking I carry the gun and extra ammo in a pouch on the left side of the hipbelt. Doesn't alarm Greenies and is right there when I need it...
Ammo for penetration on bears would be the Fereral CastCore .357 Magnum. Right now I have some Sellier&Ballott 158 spire point fmj.
This gun has done a week on the St. John's River in Maine with 7/7 rain days as well as The Moose River trip just to name two...it has been soaked and not maintained till it arrived home with no damage...
As to weight...the extra pound means nothing if it could be your life.
Bob
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Consider a Glock, perhaps the light and compact Model 36 in .45ACP. It's about impervious to the elements, quick and easy to field strip without tools (unlike revolvers), can easily be modified to accept a lanyard, and if it gets dunked, just field strip it, wipe it down or rap on a stump to dislodge H20, and you're back in business (not so with a revolver --- don't ask me how I know).
snostud83
Member
Thanks for all your thought. You've definitely given me something things to think about.
The glock 36 intrigues me. I've never actually fired a glock so I might have to look into it. Is the .45 round a decent choice for my purposes? I'd have to believe that recoil would be a bit tamer.
As far as the other suggestions, I'll certainly look into those as well. Cost is a bit of an issue. My budget is maxed at about $600 right now.
The glock 36 intrigues me. I've never actually fired a glock so I might have to look into it. Is the .45 round a decent choice for my purposes? I'd have to believe that recoil would be a bit tamer.
As far as the other suggestions, I'll certainly look into those as well. Cost is a bit of an issue. My budget is maxed at about $600 right now.
I would look at a small 22 mag revolver such as the Taurus 941 or the S&W equivalent. They hold 8 shots and a full box of ammo takes up almost no space. It sounds like the firearm will be as much for your own piece of mind as anything. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you do happen to fire a warning shot at drunk teenagers a 22 mag sounds louder than a 44 mag anyway, and will certainly be enough to handle a wayward raccoon..
Weight is always an issue for backpackers, but many of them overlook key tactical issues in a quest to save a few ounces. Instead, I'd let the primary threats (wolves/black bears/drunken idiots) drive your choice.
The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you'll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but six shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. And anything good for bears or wolves would do for drunks, so that's a wash.
I'm thinking a scandium 44 or 45 backed up by speedloaders or moon clips might be the way to go. These guns are only a few ounces heavier than a 640. The ammo is heavier, but you'll have the right thing when you need it.
After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.
Okie John
The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you'll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but six shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. And anything good for bears or wolves would do for drunks, so that's a wash.
I'm thinking a scandium 44 or 45 backed up by speedloaders or moon clips might be the way to go. These guns are only a few ounces heavier than a 640. The ammo is heavier, but you'll have the right thing when you need it.
After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.
Okie John
BlackSky
Member
This is my camping/hiking/fishing gun. When I'm doing these things I'm always always in the CA/NV Sierra high desert. No wolves around, lots of mangy looking coyotes, a good amount of black bear and I'm sure a healthy dose of bad 2 legged vermin.
I'm comfortable with being able to death with nearly all threats I might face up there. It's a 586-7 seven shot .357 with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast lead flat points. (rounds in picture not my normal mountain carry rounds).
I'm comfortable with being able to death with nearly all threats I might face up there. It's a 586-7 seven shot .357 with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast lead flat points. (rounds in picture not my normal mountain carry rounds).
chp
Member
Love the matching grips BlackSky.
If you are serious, leave the poofter piece at home. The 329pd is the backpacking revolver. But you have to man-up those wrists for it.
329pd information
329pd information
snostud83
Member
I think that you hit the nail right on the head and I didn't even realize it. Now that we're allowed to carry in National Parks(with state carry permit) I just want to for my own piece of mind. Much like I do everyday. It's just that the possible threats have changed.
Thousands enjoy the outdoors up there every year and never had much if any trouble.
Thinking about it that way, I'll probably go with the 642 load up with the best rounds that I can get and should the worst happen, well who knows if anything larger would have helped.
Are there any recommendations on ammo in .38 special/+P for my situation?
rburg
Member
A big consideration is your plans for the gun. Do you plan on shooting it on your hike, or is it just for defense? Ammo is heavy, centerfire ammo heavier. Heavy recoiling ammo suitable for defense is unpleasant to very unpleasant to fire. Accuracy can suffer from that, too.
Think back on the number of times you've used your handgun for defensive purposes on hikes. Yes, I know the number and don't try to divide by it. Even a nice 22 will impart terrific confidence, as compared with a piece of firewood. For that reason (and a wide range of ammo you can even carry along with you), the best camp gun, by a wide margin, is an accurate little 22. I'd stay away from 22 mags because of the muzzle blast, and the need for ear muffs (along with ear plugs) on 351s. Yes, I own one and like it, but its not a plinker. Probably the best gun for camp and backpacking use is one of the old M43s. You can even carry along CB caps for nearly noiseless shooting. And Stingers and the like for more social purposes.
Once you step up to the 38 range, ammo becomes a problem. You just can't carry enough to have a lot of fun. When you get up into .357 guns, recoil becomes a terrible issue. The guns can be light enough to carry, but you pay the price on ammo. Carrying an variety of loads for different uses almost disqualifies the guns for camp uses. They're fine for defense. I tend to prefer a slightly longer barrel, but you can find nice 3" 337-1s, 386, etc. Light, powerful, but somewhat unpleasant to fire in any volume of shots. Or even a nice little 396 in 44 Special.
Think back on the number of times you've used your handgun for defensive purposes on hikes. Yes, I know the number and don't try to divide by it. Even a nice 22 will impart terrific confidence, as compared with a piece of firewood. For that reason (and a wide range of ammo you can even carry along with you), the best camp gun, by a wide margin, is an accurate little 22. I'd stay away from 22 mags because of the muzzle blast, and the need for ear muffs (along with ear plugs) on 351s. Yes, I own one and like it, but its not a plinker. Probably the best gun for camp and backpacking use is one of the old M43s. You can even carry along CB caps for nearly noiseless shooting. And Stingers and the like for more social purposes.
Once you step up to the 38 range, ammo becomes a problem. You just can't carry enough to have a lot of fun. When you get up into .357 guns, recoil becomes a terrible issue. The guns can be light enough to carry, but you pay the price on ammo. Carrying an variety of loads for different uses almost disqualifies the guns for camp uses. They're fine for defense. I tend to prefer a slightly longer barrel, but you can find nice 3" 337-1s, 386, etc. Light, powerful, but somewhat unpleasant to fire in any volume of shots. Or even a nice little 396 in 44 Special.
snostud83
Member
Very good information and you're input is very appreciated.
The main purpose is strictly defense when camping.
I also like the idea of being able to use it as a second option to everyday carry(not that that's a deciding factor)
I'd simply just like to have something more that a .22.
dla,
Maybe you're right but that's not going to happen anytime soon. I've shot .357mags and a 5" 629 with target loads.
.357's are fine in the right frame.
The 629 was just too much for me. I know my limitations. thanks
crofoot629
Absent Comrade
Lighter is better.
Emory
Emory
BSkerj
Member
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+1..I have packed thoughout the Northern Rockies my whole life...I either carry my 3" 317 or my 642. The only time I ever used one (the 317) was to kill a grouse to suppliment my meals. They call the 317 a "kit gun" for a good reason...it is always in my "kit". Lightweight and very adequate when loaded with Stinger HP's.
I don't know about you, but trying to put down a bear that is coming at you with the speed of a quarter horse with anything less than a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot is pretty much futile.. on the other hand I don't know of a 2 legged predator who would care to mix it up when a revolver is pointed at them, no matter the size of the hole at the end of the barrel....JMHO
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USAF385
US Veteran
I personally carry 3 in .44 Mag while camping / hiking
Something to consider.. the Glock 30 and the Glock 36 (both .45) are practically identical in size.
they are the same size in height and length,
G30: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.
G36: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.
The difference: Width.
G30: 1.27 in
G36: 1.13 in
difference of .14 in.
The 36 is about 3 oz lighter.
As far as capacity
G30: 9, 10 (standard mag), or 13 rounds
G36: 6 rounds
So.. the G30 is .14 inches wider, 3 oz heavier, but holds 10 rounds standard.
Something to consider.. the Glock 30 and the Glock 36 (both .45) are practically identical in size.
they are the same size in height and length,
G30: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.
G36: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.
The difference: Width.
G30: 1.27 in
G36: 1.13 in
difference of .14 in.
The 36 is about 3 oz lighter.
As far as capacity
G30: 9, 10 (standard mag), or 13 rounds
G36: 6 rounds
So.. the G30 is .14 inches wider, 3 oz heavier, but holds 10 rounds standard.
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VAdoublegunner
Member
I usually go with a 3" Ruger SP101 for that purpose. I don't worry about heavier 357 Mag loads being used in it, and even though it is a little heavier than the S&W is much easier to shoot well because of where that weight is located.
If I needed something bigger, the 3" S&W 696 with some suitable 44SP handloads would go. The L-frame carries OK. Better, a 329PD if I had one. But both of those are likely out of your budget range, if you can find them.
There is always the S&W 1006 or whatever the Glock is in 10mm. That can be a very potent protection pistol with the right load! In bear, wolf, or meth head country, it isn't a bad choice.
If I needed something bigger, the 3" S&W 696 with some suitable 44SP handloads would go. The L-frame carries OK. Better, a 329PD if I had one. But both of those are likely out of your budget range, if you can find them.
There is always the S&W 1006 or whatever the Glock is in 10mm. That can be a very potent protection pistol with the right load! In bear, wolf, or meth head country, it isn't a bad choice.
Big Kahuna 19547
Member
You have received a lot of great replies here and I asked myself this question a few years ago. What I did was I started with a .22 and over time, I came up with a two gun system. I carry a 3 inch 317 in .22 and with that I carry 100 rounds of CCI mini mags and a box of CCI shotshells. I also carry a 329 and use 2 ammo wallets that hold 18 rounds in each of .44 mag/special. In the wallets I carry shotshell, HP, Hardcast, in different grains. I figure 42 rounds of .44 and 110 of .22 LR give me a huge spectrum of situations to deal with. From small game survival to black bear ability these two guns cover it. I pack one and carry the other in a simply rigged chesty puller system.
snowman.45
Member
Back Packing gun
I have hiked in the Sierras quite a bit over the years. I have run across a few black bear (up to about 350 lbs.) and mountain lions. Neither have ever presented a problem, but the potential is always there. My carry choices have fluctuated between a 3" 686 or SP101 loaded with 180 grain FP or a 696 loaded with 240 gr. gas-checked hard cast FP. All are concealable and not overly heavy.
I have hiked in the Sierras quite a bit over the years. I have run across a few black bear (up to about 350 lbs.) and mountain lions. Neither have ever presented a problem, but the potential is always there. My carry choices have fluctuated between a 3" 686 or SP101 loaded with 180 grain FP or a 696 loaded with 240 gr. gas-checked hard cast FP. All are concealable and not overly heavy.
bobelk99
Member
Bears
I would guess that you have enough pistol selection input to carry you through.
If you are going into an area that has a history of bear issues, I offer one suggestion. Wear a bell hung where it will swing, giving a noise to alert bears of your approach and avoid an unpleasant surprise situation.
I hunt some where grizzlies are a concern, and the locals who are guides on occasion require their use. Lots better than rounding a turn or topping a rise and finding yourself between a sow and her cubs!
I would guess that you have enough pistol selection input to carry you through.
If you are going into an area that has a history of bear issues, I offer one suggestion. Wear a bell hung where it will swing, giving a noise to alert bears of your approach and avoid an unpleasant surprise situation.
I hunt some where grizzlies are a concern, and the locals who are guides on occasion require their use. Lots better than rounding a turn or topping a rise and finding yourself between a sow and her cubs!
geoff40
Member
I think a 686 is more than fine for the job. I've seen many black bears while I was out and about, and not one of them has ever been aggressive in any way. They run away, or otherwise quickly exit, is what my experience with them is. A pack of wolves isn't likely to continue attacking once you start plinking them, and so that 686 with 1 or 2 speed strips or speed loaders should take very good care of your skin out there. Its the 2 legged critters you'd have more to worry about.
There is almost always a .357 on my belt when I am woods walking in some way. If not there, its under my shoulder, or very close at hand. It'll kill anything I would ever encounter out there. But if I lived in grizzly country, I'd certainly have something bigger.
There is almost always a .357 on my belt when I am woods walking in some way. If not there, its under my shoulder, or very close at hand. It'll kill anything I would ever encounter out there. But if I lived in grizzly country, I'd certainly have something bigger.
whelenshooter
Member
But the grip on a G30 is so darned big that you need to have a BIG hand to use it properly. Few women can use one without turning their hand so much that the bore isn't in-line with their forearm, like it should be. The G36 grip fits more people and many women can shoot it well. When I bought my first Glock 36, my wife took it away from me for her own use as soon as I walked in the door with it. I had to go buy another for myself. She still carries it almost every day, and she shoots it VERY well! A 6-shot gun that fits is better than a 10-shot gun that doesn't fit. The G30 doesn't fit me either.
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PeterCartwright
Member
I'm sometimes amused by the "National Geographic" perspectives on black bears. If you've spent any time in the BWCA, you've probably learned that bears are very rarely dangerous. However, people habituated bears are hardly rare, especially on the "entry" lakes, and they can be a royal nuisance.
Nearly twenty years ago, a buddy and I were just coming out of the Boundary Waters after a week in late September. I had a shotgun along to take advantage of the grouse season, and they were everywhere that year. On our last afternoon, we were just setting up camp when "Yogi" came wandering in like he owned the place. He sat on his butt about 50' from us and ogled our food pack. Saliva drooled from his mouth as he alternately looked at us and then our pack. We got some great pictures.
When we'd satisfied our photo needs, we decided to "beat the pans" and scare Yogi away, but he'd seen all those acts before, and they bored him. Resorting to more serious methods, I shot over his head with my 12 ga. That prompted Yogi to withdraw a bit, but he continued to circle our camp, perhaps forty yards out. Deciding that discretion was the better part of valor, we conceded the territory to its master and moved on.
At no time was this bear aggressive, but he wasn't the least bit intimidated, either. I went home after this incident and purchased my first handgun, a stainless Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. That piece of kit accompanied me on all subsequent canoe trips, riding in a shoulder holster. I've never needed it, but I confess, it's presence made my pillow more comfortable at night. And I didn't much worry about the derision with which "more enlightened" campers may have regarded me.
PC
Nearly twenty years ago, a buddy and I were just coming out of the Boundary Waters after a week in late September. I had a shotgun along to take advantage of the grouse season, and they were everywhere that year. On our last afternoon, we were just setting up camp when "Yogi" came wandering in like he owned the place. He sat on his butt about 50' from us and ogled our food pack. Saliva drooled from his mouth as he alternately looked at us and then our pack. We got some great pictures.
When we'd satisfied our photo needs, we decided to "beat the pans" and scare Yogi away, but he'd seen all those acts before, and they bored him. Resorting to more serious methods, I shot over his head with my 12 ga. That prompted Yogi to withdraw a bit, but he continued to circle our camp, perhaps forty yards out. Deciding that discretion was the better part of valor, we conceded the territory to its master and moved on.
At no time was this bear aggressive, but he wasn't the least bit intimidated, either. I went home after this incident and purchased my first handgun, a stainless Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. That piece of kit accompanied me on all subsequent canoe trips, riding in a shoulder holster. I've never needed it, but I confess, it's presence made my pillow more comfortable at night. And I didn't much worry about the derision with which "more enlightened" campers may have regarded me.
PC
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WoodsCustom
Member
I bear hunt in Grizzler country. Spot and stalk for miles upon miles. I pack in and live for 5-7 days with what I bring in my pack. My revolver is the S&W 629 with 320 grain gas check LBTs with gross amounts of H110.
Heavy??? Not as heavy as a Grizzler setting on your chest eating your face.
I see an avearage of 5 per trip.
WC
Heavy??? Not as heavy as a Grizzler setting on your chest eating your face.
I see an avearage of 5 per trip.
WC
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snostud83
Member
Well I truly appreciate all of the insight.
I decided on the 442. I know that many of you are shaking your heads right now and I understand and respect that. It's just my gun budget is limited and the 642/442 had been on my list for a while for normal carry.
As, it's been posted. This gun is really more for piece of mind while out on trail.
I'm also aware that black bears and wolves really aren't all that aggressive towards people so long as you respect nature and educate yourself to their habits. It's my opinion and maybe I'm wrong, but a .38+p should be enough to deter most threats that I may encounter. Hey, it's got to be better than not carrying anything out there like I've done for the past few years.
If I feel under gunned this year I'll certainly look to something larger for next season.
Thanks again everyone
I decided on the 442. I know that many of you are shaking your heads right now and I understand and respect that. It's just my gun budget is limited and the 642/442 had been on my list for a while for normal carry.
As, it's been posted. This gun is really more for piece of mind while out on trail.
I'm also aware that black bears and wolves really aren't all that aggressive towards people so long as you respect nature and educate yourself to their habits. It's my opinion and maybe I'm wrong, but a .38+p should be enough to deter most threats that I may encounter. Hey, it's got to be better than not carrying anything out there like I've done for the past few years.
If I feel under gunned this year I'll certainly look to something larger for next season.
Thanks again everyone
Stainz
Member
My choice was pronounced as a 'perfect packing pistol' - a .45 Colt 625MG. Big & heavy, and only either a pack or holster carry, I never took it on my day hikes. Skip ahead a bit - my 296 had a Mika pocket holster fitted for it. It fits my hiking pants' front pockets. Loaded with a first and second 240gr LSWC - and subsequent chambers, as well as the HKS #CA44 speedloader, carries Georgia Arms 200gr Gold Dots. It should suffice for most threats here in the SE, even camping.
Stainz
Stainz
m657
Member
great choices here...the frontier was settled largely by those carrying big bore black powder arms....not that I'm going to do the Holy Black mantra...but I do prefer something starting with a "4" on such outings.
Anything is better than nothing.
Anything is better than nothing.
