BAD ambi safety: install problem

[Yojimbo762]

Swapped out the grip and safety selector for an MOE+ and a BAD ambi.

Watched several instructionals on YTube beforehand.

After running dry, hammer forward, when the selector is on "FIRE" in the vertical position, my safety is not entirely stuck on "FIRE" as it should be. It has about 40degrees of play.
ie I can rotate the selector counter-clockwise to about 11/5 o'clock.
If I try to fire, the selector rotates back to 12/6 o'clock and the trigger does not reset the hammer.
When charged/hammer back I can manipulate the selector from vertical to horizontal just fine...all safe but I hate the play in the selector when it should be locked in.

I dis- and re-assembled 4-5x, tried inserting the selector at 45degrees/ rotated a bit/ played with the detent as I installed... all with the same result; play in the safety when on "FIRE" when it should be pretty much frozen.

Has anyone experienced this and have a solution for me?

Thank you~~



(Searched and didn't find this issue in the forum or the web so I'm certain it is an ID-10-t issue...)

 

[cjt50]

Mine does the same thing, (BAD safety installed) It will move off fire with the hammer forward, but not to the safe position. (bout 40 degrees)

Reading normal...

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

That does not sound right. With the hammer uncocked, I only get a slight movement if I try.

When you loosen your grip, is the spring for the safety bent or getting caught between the grip and lower? Did you use the spring with the kit or the original spring?

One more thing I can think of to check, did you mix up the springs for the takedown pin and the safety selector? It's been a while since I have had mine apart but if I recall correctly the springs are different.

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

I sent an email to Roger at BAD to see if he has some input on the issue.

 

[yugowego]

Can u get us a pic looking down into the lower?

 

[dtjacob]

No problem with mine.......I'm sure Roger will have the answer.

 

[Battle Arms Dev.]

Guys, what trigger are you using?

The trigger should reset. Do you use a reduced power spring?

The slack which exists while the hammer is forward, safety on FIRE is not uncommon on the AR. The selector's center has a flat cut / cam, when it's rotated counter clockwise, it's allowed to keep going until the edge of the cam comes in contact with the trigger's rear tang and is stopped from rotating further. The amount of rotation is usually about 20 degree or so, you can find this behavior on an AR15 unless there's an adjustable trigger that may not do the same.

As to the trigger not returning/resetting, I'd take a look at the spring and trigger. I've also seen this before on an M16, the issue was indeed what I suspected, a brand of LPK that's known to have problems now and then, though the user didn't believe me until I had him do more tests to verify

 

[Yojimbo762]

Thanks so much for the quick replies.
Great troubleshooting suggestions.

I have the two different springs right--I obsessively set them apart upon breakdown.
I used the spring and detent from BAD for the safety.
I was very careful to line the springs up and not bend them every time I reattached and tightened the grip... but I will double check that when I get'r apart again tonight.
The safety spring tended to drift away from the detent/hole but lined up fine and the detent *clicked* into the selector's groove.
The takedown spring definitely was unruly while being compressed by that aftermarket grip...but I'm fairly sure it is okay. I got the same result every time I put everything back together so if it is a spring issue, I let it bend the same way every darn time.
I'm using the factory trigger.

I will send pictures tonight as well.

Maybe cjt50 and I did the same thing in reassembling...

 

[Battle Arms Dev.]

As I recall, the MP15-22's factory selector detent spring is shorter than that on the AR. We supply the 15-22 kit with the same accessories as the AR15/AR10 version, though you can use the existing spring. If your selector is harder to rotate when using our supplied spring, you can either put the factory spring back, or clip off a coil or two on the AR15 spec selector detent spring.

I was going to take some pictures to illustrate the slack present when the hammer is forward (uncocked), but most of my ARs have 45 degree selectors where FIRE is at 10 o'clock. They all exhibit the same behavior you described above, in that they are allowed to rotate about 20 degrees before coming to a stop.

The selector should be fully engaged in FIRE position when you're ready to press the trigger.

 

[UncaGrunny]

Maybe you misplaced the safety (selector) detent pin that goes below the spring?

 

[cjt50]

Had me wondering, so I rechecked mine and I can move it so the pointer lines up with the F in fire on the left side of rifle when un-cocked. Using a RRA 2 stage trigger and OEM springs for take down and safety detents. Not 40 degrees I overstated earlier. (sorry)

Fire / Safe have very positive clicks when the safety is manipulated. Safety have been installed for over a year. (IIRC)

I have other ar15s, a SCAR and ACR that exhibit the same behavior using their OEM safety levers. Thought it was normal.....

@yojimbo762: Are you saying your safety as installed doesn't "click" into the fire position? Mine does, but I can move it as described above with hammer un-cocked.

 

[Yojimbo762]

...The slack which exists while the hammer is forward, safety on FIRE is not uncommon on the AR. The selector's center has a flat cut / cam, when it's rotated counter clockwise, it's allowed to keep going until the edge of the cam comes in contact with the trigger's rear tang and is stopped from rotating further. The amount of rotation is usually about 20 degree or so, you can find this behavior on an AR15 unless there's an adjustable trigger that may not do the same....

The travel is exactly what you describe: The selector's center has a flat cut / cam, when it's rotated counter clockwise, it's allowed to keep going until the edge of the cam comes in contact with the trigger's rear tang and is stopped from rotating further.

I removed the detent(s) and spring(s) from the equation entirely and the issue still presented itself.

While the trigger is at rest fully forward, the cam has 40degrees of travel before it contacts the rear tang.

While the trigger is released to reset (or pressed rearward until the first slight resistance is felt) there is "no" play in the safety selector whatsoever. (there is a normal 5degree bit of travel or so)

This clears up the conundrum for me. Thank you all.

I'll either live with it, look into a different trigger group or see if the issued trigger is adjustable.... which is beyond my paygrade. To the smith I go.

Arigato goziamasu! I really appreciate the efforts from everyone.

 

[gotfish]

I admit I haven't read every post in this thread, but is it possible you don't have the "axle" or (insert proper safety part term here) in properly? It is reversible, in the context that the safety levers will work and screw into the central "part" from either side, facing the appropriate direction. But the safety will only function properly if the "axle" or horizontal part is in the correct way. For those who are curious, yes, I do have one of these (with the factory trigger). And yes, I have (accidentally) installed it backwards. Roger's products are as good as it gets- I have 3 bad-*** safeties.

 

[Yojimbo762]

as a "p.s.," when I ordered from BAD I was amazed by the quickness of the shipment & great communication (emails re: shipment). I think I ordered late one night, had a full day in between and it was received the next day.

Also, having chosen two "standard" levers, I'd prefer a "short" lever for my support side. (or a "crank" if it is shorter than the "standard" lever)
...in case anyone has been contemplating a purchase.

A+ product and A+ service.
If you're weighing what lever combination to go with...I suggest not going with "standard" on the "other" side of your rifle.

 

[gotfish]

as a "p.s.," when I ordered from BAD I was amazed by the quickness of the shipment & great communication (emails re: shipment). I think I ordered late one night, had a full day in between and it was received the next day.

Also, having chosen two "standard" levers, I'd prefer a "short" lever for my support side. (or a "crank" if it is shorter than the "standard" lever)
...in case anyone has been contemplating a purchase.

A+ product and A+ service.
If you're weighing what lever combination to go with...I suggest not going with "standard" on the "other" side of your rifle.

I agree with all of the above...I have the "short and thin" version of the levers on the right side of all my AR's. +1 on the absolutely incredible customer service practices of their company. Probably none better!

 

[Battle Arms Dev.]

Thank you guys, and thank you Jonathan at Simple Weapon Solutions for letting me know about the issues you gents were having.

If you want to exchange your existing levers for other levers, we're but an email or phone call away, the LEP (lever exchange program) is applicable for all selectors, of all ages and conditions.

We will handle the LEP, we encourage everyone to support our dealers. Jon at Simple Weapon Solutions has much to do with the MP15-22 BAD-***'s being, I don't think we would have developed it if it weren't for his push

 

[Battle Arms Dev.]

Gotfish, that is an astute observation.

Even with experienced users, there have been times when the detent was installed incorrectly, and the selector center's detent groove and holes are on the wrong side (with the muzzle facing away from the shooter, the detent groove and holes should be on the right side of the selector center).

Our selectors are both reversible and convertible, but the centers only have one detent groove and two detent holes, unlike other reversible, single lever selectors that have the groove and holes on both sides of the center.

Our selectors, being fully modular, as designed, are ambidextrous and have a lever on both sides, but the design allows the user to install a lever on any side he wishes, and simply cap the side he doesn't want a lever on, thus it's reversible without having to remove the entire selector.

The user has the option to use the selector as designed (with both lever attached), or with a single lever and a cap, thus it's convertible.

I admit I haven't read every post in this thread, but is it possible you don't have the "axle" or (insert proper safety part term here) in properly? It is reversible, in the context that the safety levers will work and screw into the central "part" from either side, facing the appropriate direction. But the safety will only function properly if the "axle" or horizontal part is in the correct way. For those who are curious, yes, I do have one of these (with the factory trigger). And yes, I have (accidentally) installed it backwards. Roger's products are as good as it gets- I have 3 bad-*** safeties.

 

[SimpleWeaponSolutions]

I am currently running an ALG ACT trigger in the 15-22. I tried to reproduce the problem Yojimbo762 is having with the ALG ACT and the stock FCG. They only way I could get that much movement with the hammer forward was to install the safety center with the detent groove on the left side of the rifle.

Yojimbo762, if the safety center is installed correctly and you still have that much play in it, you can try another FCG. If you want I will mail you my orginal 15-22 FCG for you to try out.

Also for future referance for anyone installing the BAD ***, may want take a look at this post by tracksol, he did a quick write up on the install procedure.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...intrest-drop-ambi-safety-4.html#post136557223

I was very careful to line the springs up and not bend them every time I reattached and tightened the grip... but I will double check that when I get'r apart again tonight.

Any aftermarket grip that is bought for the AR15 will not have a second hole for the takedown pin. Some people like to drill a hole in the grip, or me personally, I just clip the spring. If you do this do not clip it flush with the lower leave around 1/8+ so there is still some tension being applied by the spring to detent.

 

[Yojimbo762]

I am currently running an ALG ACT trigger in the 15-22. I tried to reproduce the problem Yojimbo762 is having with the ALG ACT and the stock FCG. They only way I could get that much movement with the hammer forward was to install the safety center with the detent groove on the left side of the rifle.

Yojimbo762, if the safety center is installed correctly and you still have that much play in it, you can try another FCG. If you want I will mail you my orginal 15-22 FCG for you to try out.

Also for future referance for anyone installing the BAD ***, may want take a look at this post by tracksol, he did a quick write up on the install procedure.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...intrest-drop-ambi-safety-4.html#post136557223




Any aftermarket grip that is bought for the AR15 will not have a second hole for the takedown pin. Some people like to drill a hole in the grip, or me personally, I just clip the spring. If you do this do not clip it flush with the lower leave around 1/8+ so there is still some tension being applied by the spring to detent.

Thank you very much for offering to send your FCG out to me! I really appreciate that but wouldn't want you to go to the trouble.
Everything is safely functioning so I'm okay with the safety's performance. (the detent groove is on the right side and when on 'fire' and 'safe' I get a healthy *click*)

I likely will snip the rear spring a little bit-- the takedown pin is a touch too difficult to slide out & back in.

Thank you again.