Basic Ammo Question: The higher the grains, the more powerful the round?

[Chris L.]

..........

 

[tx_oil]

The grain weight is strictly how much the bullet weighs. What you are interested is in foot-pounds of energy that bullet arrives at it's target with.
Let's say that I reload a batch of 38 special, using the universal 158 grain lead round nose cast bullet. In the first batch I load 3.1 grains of HP38 powder ( a great all around pistol powder). This load will generate 782 FPS muzzle velocity, and a load of 3.7 grains of HP38 will yeild a velocity of 834 FPS..as the velocity increases, the foot-pounds of energy increases and so the 'stopping power' of the round increases.
Now take the SAME 158 grain lead cast bullet and load it in a .357 mag case, with 5.0 grains of the same powder, HP38, and the muzzle velocity is NOW 1109 FPS, or approx 30% faster than the .38 special load. I do not have the foot-pounds chart in front of me but the yield is much more.
Same bullet.. just travelling faster and therefore imparting more kinetic energy to it's target.
Make sense??
When you are ammo shopping, look for the right type of bullet for the job, and the factory rating of FPS muzzle velocity.

 

[all357mag]

Sorry to disappoint you, but NO 9mm load will out perform the larger 38spl loads. The best bullet weight for 38/357 caliber is the 158gr they were designed for. Buy some Hornady XTP 158gr for your 38spl, and don't look back.

 

[lebomm]

Just as a point of information, 1gr. = 1/7000 of a pound. Stated another way, there are 7000 grains to a pound. It is a unit of weight and no more.

Larry

 

[murphydog]

It's a complex question (the first one). Everything else being equal, a heavier bullet will generate more energy on target, but larger bullets mean less space for powder so heavier bullets are usually driven more slowly. Bullet construction also plays a factor, in that rounds that don't stay in the target don't transmit their energy fully. Plus, heavier loads equal more recoil and may be less controllable.

So, for example, the 125 gr JHP full .357 load has the best statistical effect of all loads, due to a combination of adequate weight, good expansion and driven at relatively high velocity. The 158 gr loads are no slouch either, so no one should feel undergunned with an expanding round in this weight.

There is no one "best" load for your 642, but many recommend the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr +P for defense purposes. You can practice with lighter loads, like 148 gr lead wadcutters or 158 gr lead, but you should be proficient with the self-defense load.

 

[murphydog]

When you say "heavier loads" you mean the bullet weight right? I'm trying to differentiate what people mean when they say "hot loads" or "heavy loads".

Heavier is relative, and usually refers to the combination of bullet weight and powder charge. As in the example given above, a bullet weight with a smaller amount of powder would be a "light" load, and a few extra grains in the charge turns it into a "heavier" load.

 

[Hapworth]

So I should be looking at the highest muzzle velocity plus ft/lbs energy rather then grain weight of bullet for a small snubbie?

That's part of the equation, but not definitive; higher muzzle velocity does not always equal a better performing round. The type of bullet being used also counts (round nose, hollow point, wadcutter), what material that bullet is made from (lead, copper, combination); quality, type of construction, and sectional density of the cone determining how that bullet behaves on impact -- all play a role in a round's effectiveness or lack thereof. Also the type of powder and what its burn profile is -- fast or slow combustion will have different affects on different guns sporting different muzzle lengths. Too, what pressure it's all loaded to.

High velocity from the right bullet in the right gun might mean excellent ballistic profiles, whereas in a different configuration all that great velocity might make for a hollow point that expands too much too soon after entering the target.

On and on it goes...

What this really means is that instead of grabbing the highest velocity round you can find, look instead to the well established makers and research the rounds designed for your specific needs in the specific (or at least type) of gun you will be using.

Select a few based on the ones that test best and experiment with them yourself in your gun. Choose the one that yields the best accuracy, reliability and ease of shooting as you would measure it.

 

[vipermd]

Yes- What they all said. It takes time to understand what your needs are then find the right combination of bullet type, weight, velocity. Remember "stopping power" is a relative term to help us compare apples, oranges and bananas!! The formula for energy is weight in grains X velocity squared, divided by 450400 = ft/lbs of energy. As for your 642 I use speer 135 gr gold dot shot barrel in my 638 and titanium, accuracy is "good", expansion was impressive, in my limited testing. The Corbon your using should be fine if it hits to point of aim. Be Safe,

 

[Nevada Ed]

For s&w revolvers that are non+P rated the Federal 125 Nyclad and the winchester 110gr silver tip are the two best rounds to use............the standard 158 Lswc and the 148wc
are also used by some............since the heavier bullets tend to penetrate more than the lighter bullts that loose their velosity and energys much faster in tissue.

A copper jacket bullet needs around 900fps for it to expand in
a snub nose.............840fps at 8 feet will not work work on water jugs,per my test a few months ago,with a 125 and 110gr
Jhp.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Sorry to disappoint you, but NO 9mm load will out perform the larger 38spl loads. The best bullet weight for 38/357 caliber is the 158gr they were designed for. Buy some Hornady XTP 158gr for your 38spl, and don't look back.

Au Contraire. You have it backwards. NO 38 Special load can outperform the 9x19mm.

Lets compare just two brands in the same/near same weights and bullet designs.

Speer standard pressure 9x19mm 124gr Gold Dot = 1150fps MV
Speer 38 Special +P 125 Gold Dot = 945fps MV

Hornady standard pressure 9x19mm 124XTP = 1110fps MV
Hornady 38 Special 125XTP = 900fps MV
Hornady 38 Special 158XTP = 800fps MV

There is NO factory loaded standard pressure 38Spl load that can outperform the standard pressure 9x19mm in equal bullet weights. And this goes for +P and +P+ loads too.

And as another example, even the 9x19mm 115JHP+P+ has superior ballistics AND proven stopping ability on the streets over the 38Spl 110JHP+P+.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, lets start with a basic understanding of the actual problem: Assuming sufficient velocity and penetration, unless the bullet strikes vital organs, systems or structures of the body, it doesn't really matter what caliber, bullet weight or velocity is involved. In short, your ability to place rounds accurately is more important than the actual cartridge or bullet you use.

As an example, the late great Jack O'Conner once placed a shot badly on a small antelope (gut shot it) with a .375 H&H. They spent about 3 hours chasing the poor critter before being able to put it out of its misery. Now, the .375 has been slaying everything from elephants on down for 100 years with great reliability when the bullet is properly placed. If a literal elephant gun (putting out 20 times the muzzle energy of a .38 Special) can't "stop" a 100 pound critter with a badly placed shot, exactly what do you think is going to happen if you fail to place your shots in a vital area with any .38 bullet?

So, find a load you can shoot accurately and practice, practice, practice. So long as you're using a good hollow point (although guns have been killing critters of various types for 400 years without expanding bullets) by a major manufacturer, you'll do fine-IF YOU HIT VITAL ORGANS, SYSTEMS OR STRUCTURES!

To quote an SAS training specialist: "We can argue all day if one is better than another if you get sloppy and put your bullets somewhere other than where they ought to go. What you can't argue about is that if you run out of bullets before you run out of bad guys, you're (deleted) dead!"

 

[mkk41]

Yep , ya can do direct comparisons of 9mmP and .38 Special loads at many of the ammomakers websites.

Even if domestic 9mmP ammo is loaded a bit lighter than European stuff , no .38 Special factory load , std or +P , will beat it's numbers on paper.

 

[DWalt]

Bullet weight, type, and velocity are all secondary to proper shot placement. Spend more time improving your marksmanship and gun handling through practice and less time worrying about what the best load is.

 

[silentflyer]

Good point about the .38 vs 9mm, the easy solution, use a .357/.41/44 mag.

 

[baccusboy]

No 9mm in any bullet weight will outperform a 158 grain .38?

Excuse me, but my sides are hurting. I just can't take any more of this comedy.

 

[baccusboy]

Au Contraire. You have it backwards. NO 38 Special load can outperform the 9x19mm.

Lets compare just two brands in the same/near same weights and bullet designs.

Speer standard pressure 9x19mm 124gr Gold Dot = 1150fps MV
Speer 38 Special +P 125 Gold Dot = 945fps MV

Hornady standard pressure 9x19mm 124XTP = 1110fps MV
Hornady 38 Special 125XTP = 900fps MV
Hornady 38 Special 158XTP = 800fps MV

There is NO factory loaded standard pressure 38Spl load that can outperform the standard pressure 9x19mm in equal bullet weights. And this goes for +P and +P+ loads too.

And as another example, even the 9x19mm 115JHP+P+ has superior ballistics AND proven stopping ability on the streets over the 38Spl 110JHP+P+.

And the .38's don't even reach the same expansion levels as 9mm.

 

[murphydog]

My needs are probably similar to a lot of other members needs here wishing to carry a 642, LCR or other similar snubbie. I want the best performing ammo for my type of gun with the least recoil possible.

There are two ways to address this. From a mechanical/physical standpoint, you have a lightweight gun that is firing a (relatively) large round for its size and weight. If you want to use the "best performing ammo", there is no repealing the laws of physics; you are looking at medium-heavy bullet weights and powder charges to achieve this, which will generate lots of recoil in a 642. You can mitigate this simply by using larger stocks that allow a firmer hold and spread the impact on your hand, or a heavier gun, or both.

The second way is lots of practice and learning to deal with the recoil.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Most 38 specials need a 4" barrel to get the factory ammo to expand be it lead or copper jacket bullets.

Best load in my mod 49 with the win and Rem 125gr sjhp
was an Alliant maximum 38 special of Unique that reached 931fps but the pattern was all over the place..........so I still agree that a 38 special does not really need a +P load and it will preform much better with regular factory velosity ammo.

Only factory loads that work in the snub nose is the silver tip and Nyclad for self defense and a bullet that will expand.


I will agree that a 124gr Jhp 9mm at 1200 fps is better than a 38 special J frame................ but a K frame or heavier will match this bullet and my L frame can get 1305fps out of a 38 special case with just Unique with out going to the magnum powders.
A 125gr in a 357 magnum can hit 1700fps ......
but only 1450 fps is needed........and 1250fps will work.

 

[blujax01]

.... I tried some of those 158gr XTP's in my LCR and found the recoil disagreeable. Their 110 gr FTX standard pressure and +p were more manageable...

This is an important part of the equation. Carrying a super duper hot hand cannon doesn't mean a thing if you can't bring the gun back to point-of-aim quickly after the first round goes off.

As others say, find a round that you are comfortable shooting and practice until you can hit what you're aiming at. Then, practice often.

 

[timn8er]

Interesting discussion! Just the other day a friend & I
were discussing the relative merits of "big & slow" &
"light & fast" in reference to s/d loads, so this thread
is very informative.