Basic Dies For Pistol Ammo on Progressive Loaders

[B's640]

Okay, I have experience only loading non-crimped rifle ammo on a single stage press. I'm now preparing to move into new territory of loading pistol ammo with a five station progressive loader. I'm researching what I need and am unclear on a few things related to the types of dies to load .45 Auto, .38 spl, .44 spl, and 357 mag.
1. How do I determine if crimping is needed for a given cartridge? Will all the rounds I listed need to be crimped?
2. I do not plan to cast my own bullets anytime soon, but if I ever do go that extra step, would the dies I buy now matter for that latter?
3. The basic dies recommended to load pistol ammo as I understand it are:
a. Sizing Die
b. Bullet seating Die
c. Crimp Die
4. What about expander dies? I understand they are no longer considered a standard usage item. I'm looking at the Redding Dual ring sizing dies which are said to perform by having one ring positioned to properly size the bullet retention portion of the case, and the other ring positioned to size the case body to the proper dimensions for easy chambering without undue over working of the brass. Is this die therefore doing double duty, i.e what an expander die and normal sizing die would do? I'm already confused with what the case prep requirements are for straight wall pistol brass.
5. So if I go with the following, would that be a good setup? I really like Redding dies, but am open minded on that front.
a. Redding Dual ring sizer die
b. Redding bullet seater die (no crimping with this die)
c. Redding crimp die
d. Somebody's powder checker die
Am I missing anything here?
What is a Trim die for?

 

[OKFC05]

First you need to learn the basics.
Here's a demo video of how a progressive works and what each die does: Dillon Precision Presents the Square Deal B - YouTube

The Dillon SDB uses proprietary dies, and comes with one set on the machine. Conversion kits are available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0__OViMcaA&feature=youtu.be
The other Dillon machines use standard thread dies, but personally I much prefer the Dillon brand dies for progressive machines because they are specifically made to feed easily on a progressive press, and have the expander built into the powder measure. You DO NEED AN EXPANDER DIE TO LOAD PISTOL CARTRIDGES.

Whatever machine you decide to get, life is going to be much simpler if you use everything on the machine that matches rather than using one of this brand and another of that.

Since your knowledge level is evidently low, buying a set-up machine, such as a Dillon, will be much easier to learn on.

 

[B's640]

There are gazillions of reference books on this subj. Are there any particulare ones highly regarded as "The go to" manual for metalic pistal cartridge reloading?

 

[blujax01]

There are gazillions of reference books on this subj. Are there any particulare ones highly regarded as "The go to" manual for metalic pistal cartridge reloading?

Two often mentioned are "The ABC's of Reloading" and "Lyman's Reloading Manual" - which is currently in the 49th Edition.

Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" or reloading manuals by Speer, and Hornady are equally as welcome in my library.

They are all good. Perhaps a trip to your local library is in order. Peruse them all then go out and buy the one(s) that speak to you.

Used books on EBay or at Half Price Book Stores are also good sources.

I am particularly fond of an on line source ~ AbeBooks Official Site - New & Used Books, Textbooks, & Rare Books ~ a bunch of independent book sellers who have come together to form a consortium.

In short, if you're going to be a good reloader, you should also be a good reader.

 

[fredj338]

IF you are going with a any progressive & a powder thru die, the expander will be separate as part of the powder delivery die, or pwoder thru die. SO you can go with the die setup you list, at elast with a LNL or Dilllon, but you will have to buy the PTD for the LNL, Dillon will come with the press & conversion.
You don't need to trim pistol cases, ever. There is some mert to trimming the longer magnum cases for uniform roll crimping, but I have nver trimmed a service pistol case, ever.

 

[scattershot]

All pistol ammo needs to be crimped. The revolver rounds take a roll crimp, and the semiauto rounds, like the .45 ACP use a taper crimp. This taper crimp is basically just to remove the flare to the case mouth, as case tension holds the bullet in place.

If you're buying dies, the Lee dies work fine, but whatever you get be sure the sizing die is carbide.(Do they even make non-carbide dies anymore?)

Read all you can, and go slow and be careful.

Good luck!

 

[M&PUSER]

Okay, I have experience only loading non-crimped rifle ammo on a single stage press. I'm now preparing to move into new territory of loading pistol ammo with a five station progressive loader. I'm researching what I need and am unclear on a few things related to the types of dies to load .45 Auto, .38 spl, .44 spl, and 357 mag.

Here are two videos that will cover the type of press I use for my 45 ACP and 9mm Luger reloads. Gavin does an excellent job covering all aspects. Optional features can be added later on. A Trim Die is an archaic substitute for a Case Trimmer as you'll see below. It uses a file.

1 Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Overview Part I - YouTube

2 Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Overview Part II - YouTube

3 Trim Dies - YouTube

As you can see a lot of good information is available through Youtube.

 

[federali]

Watch for Short Dies

I use a Dillon 550B progressive. I've found that some die brands are too short overall to be easily used with the Dillon. I've heard of people putting the lock ring under the die plate or holder to get it all to work.

I too would go with Dillon dies in the Dillon press. Be aware that when seating semi-wadcutters in revolver cartridges, you may need a second bullet seating punch to conform to the shape of the bullet. I had problems with .44 Mag dies shaving a bit of the lead off the top of the bullet as the bullets didn't match the seating punch.

 

[dickttx]

For handgun reloading I found this to be very good:

Reloading for Handgunners: Patrick Sweeney: 9781440217708: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512z%2B-luEWL.@@AMEPARAM@@512z%2B-luEWL

I got MUCH more from it than from the ABC's.

 

[B's640]

Alright! Thanks all for this bit of pass down.

 

[B's640]

I think some of my confusion is coming from reading the different manufacturers marketing on their dies, and die sets to determine what dies I would need. I do understand the basics of what has to be done, my confusion is coming with which version dies must or should be used vs which ones are nice to have.
So for a FIVE station progressive press, are these the basic layouts?

Option A:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Powder charge checker die
5. Combo bullet seater and crimping die

Option B:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die
(No powder checker die this option)

Option C:
1. Combo Sizing/Expander/decapper die
2. Shell activated, through powder die
3. Powder charge checker die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Crimping die

 

[smokindog]

You going to tell us which press you decided upon or are you still pondering

I was going to say here's a handy easy chart from Hornady but I then remembered it's quite the eye chart! I'm sure the other brands have similar reference charts.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/Reloading_Essentials_Chart.pdf

Start small, do all the reading you've been asking about, watch a bunch of the youtube videos folks have posted, review some of the similar threads here, and all will work its way out! I don't claim to be an expert or in the caliber of many of the fine folks you've received input from, but I do remember the stage of the process you're in now.

 

[63expert]

I think some of my confusion is coming from reading the different manufacturers marketing on their dies, and die sets to determine what dies I would need. I do understand the basics of what has to be done, my confusion is coming with which version dies must or should be used vs which ones are nice to have.
So for a FIVE station progressive press, are these the basic layouts?

Option A:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Powder charge checker die
5. Combo bullet seater and crimping die

Option B:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die
(No powder checker die this option)

Option C:
1. Combo Sizing/Expander/decapper die
2. Shell activated, through powder die
3. Powder charge checker die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Crimping die

Option C doesn't work. No such thing as size/expand in the same die.

On my Hornady AP loading .38 it goes:

1. Decap/FL size
2. Open
3. Powder through/Expand
4. Bullet feed
5. Seat/Crimp

Many prefer to seat and crimp separately.

Rifle ammo needs to be done in two passes.

 

[dmar]

I think some of my confusion is coming from reading the different manufacturers marketing on their dies, and die sets to determine what dies I would need. I do understand the basics of what has to be done, my confusion is coming with which version dies must or should be used vs which ones are nice to have.
So for a FIVE station progressive press, are these the basic layouts?

Option A:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Powder charge checker die
5. Combo bullet seater and crimping die

Option B:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die
(No powder checker die this option)

Option C:
1. Combo Sizing/Expander/decapper die
2. Shell activated, through powder die
3. Powder charge checker die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Crimping die

I reload on a Hornady LnL progressive, so I use another combination, so here's an option "D":

1. Sizing/decapping die
2. Shell activated, powder through/expander die
3. Powder charge check die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die

 

[Jeff423]

Option D

Option "D" above is what I use on my 650.

 

[B's640]

Option C doesn't work. No such thing as size/expand in the same die.

Have a look at this die. Have I misunderstood what it's supposed to do?

Dual Ring Carbide Sizing Dies in .38 SPL & .44 SPL | Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

 

[B's640]

I reload on a Hornady LnL progressive, so I use another combination, so here's an option "D":

1. Sizing/decapping die
2. Shell activated, powder through/expander die
3. Powder charge check die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die

This makes the most sense of what I've been trying to resolve. Does the Hornady LNL AP come with this powder through/expander die standard? When I read the manf descriptions of this press, there is no mention of the expander application. When I look at the expander dies for the Hornady, non indicate they are for use coupled to the powder measure.

 

[fredj338]

On ALL progressives with a pwoder thru option, the flare/bell is applied there. So with most die sets, you will not need the flare/bell die on a progressive IF you are using the powder thru option & why wouldn't you for handgun?

 

[scattershot]

My powder checker is my Mk68 a1 calibrated eyeball, so my Dillon is set up,like this:

Station 1 size, decap, prime
Station 2 powder charge and flare the case mouth
Station 3, seat bullet and crimp case
Station 4, crimp casemouth if not done at station 3

Really simple, and pretty much sorts itself out. Imthink you are overthinking this a bit. Buy a press and a set of dies, and go for it.

 

[smokindog]

The case activated powder drop does not come with the expander option. It can be added. I use the 3 die sets. I've got a powder cop and I've also got separate seater/crimp for some calibers/bullets. Like someone else said, don't over think this. Get a 3 die set for one caliber, and go from there, .... slowly, ... Good luck! Is it fair to assume you've chosen the LNL from your comments???

For use in conjunction with the Hornady Case Activated Powder Drop, the Quick Change Powder Die and Powder Through Expanders make reloading pistol cartridges on your Lock-N-Load faster and easier. The Quick Change die comes with a lower bracket with guide bushing and lock ring. Expanders are available (sold separately) in .355, .357, .400, .430, .451, .452, .475 and .500 diameter for both lead cast bullets and copper plated bullets. The Expanders allow you to charge the case while expanding the case mouth (Hornady suggest you fill that station with the powder cop die so you can ensure that each case is properly charged with powder. The Powder Cop die is sold separately).
​

This makes the most sense of what I've been trying to resolve. Does the Hornady LNL AP come with this powder through/expander die standard? When I read the manf descriptions of this press, there is no mention of the expander application. When I look at the expander dies for the Hornady, non indicate they are for use coupled to the powder measure.