BE-86 and the 9mm; how low to start?

[N-frame-guy]

I've been tinkering with some coated cast Bayou bullets in a Browning HP. I bought their sampler package with 115, 124 and 135 RN a few years ago. I've been able to find data both here and online for similar weight cast bullets in other forums with the 124 weight but not the 135 nor the 115. I have not run these over a chrono as my supply is limited; I'm more concerned with plinking accuracy for the few bullets I have (100 of each) and establishing a record of each in the event I want to lay in a larger stock of the best shooting weight at a later date. The way things are right now, that may be a long time in the future!

With the 124, I worked from 4.5 up to 5.1 and settled on 4.8 as best in my case. With the 135, some careful interpolation got me started at 4.0 and I found happiness at 4.3.

The Alliant site lists the speed of the 124 cast quite a bit higher than I'm looking to plink with using the 115's and I'm trying to find a starting point to give me about 900-950 fps. If I end up a bit higher that's fine, provided it's fun to shoot and not too inaccurate. I'm not a high precision shooter with a handgun.

Where do you think I can safely start with the 115's? I've seen 124's as low as 3.4 but haven't found much on the 115's in the lower speed I'm looking for. I know it's similar in rate to Unique but hesitate to substitute or use that data as a starting point. I have the latest Lyman cast bullet book but don't remember seeing BE86 listed there.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In my C9 3.5" 9mm pistol and a 125 gr. coated RN bullet,

CFE p with 4.5 grs got me 916 fps and 5 shots grouped at 2.51".
Green Dot at 945 fps.................................... grouped at 1.12"
Bullseye at 1115 fps................................................. at 1.01"
CFE p at... 1038 fps ................................................. at 1.09"

OAL of the load has a LOT to do with the accuray..........
as well as the FPS that your loads produce.

Out of 20 test loads, I got groups from 3.03" to the best at 1.01"
HS-6 was the slowest powder that I used.....
and my OAL went from 1.06 to a long 1.16" in my test with the 125 gr.

Have fun.

 

[fltbed]

Where do you think I can safely start with the 115's? I've seen 124's as low as 3.4 but haven't found much on the 115's in the lower speed I'm looking for. I know it's similar in rate to Unique but hesitate to substitute or use that data as a starting point. I have the latest Lyman cast bullet book but don't remember seeing BE86 listed there.

Hello N-frame guy and welcome to the forum.

I've been playing around with BE-86 for the last few years in a few different calibers. (9mm, 38/357 Mag, 40S&W, 10mm, 44 Spl, 45 acp & 45 Colt.) I would say, from my experience, BE-86 is a slower burning, high energy powder, a lot closer to Power Pistol, with a flash retardant added.

The only testing I've done in 9mm with the 115 gr weight was some old Winchester JHP's I found in my bullet stash.
In my testing, below 5.2gr, the performance was erratic and dirty with the most accurate load being 6.2gr.
With that said, the best SWAG I could offer on a start load using coated lead 115 bullets would be 4.6gr. but I suspect you'll find the best performance and accuracy around 5.6-5.8 gr however, velocities will be closer to 1150+ fps.

A better powder choice for your application, (if you can even find powder now a days) if you ever stumble across some of Winchesters new 244, grab it! This has become my new favorite for light target loads.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

 

[elpac3]

I find BE86 to be a viable substitute for unique in my .357 and .44. I have used BE86 in the 135, 145 and 147 grain 9mm loads. Not sure it would be the best choice with the lighter 9mm bullets.

As noted, seating depth is everything with the 9mm. You will need to find a length your gun likes, they are all different. The top load in my Sig 320 shoots like **** in my model 39.

 

[342ti]

I've loaded 9mm for YEARS, don't think it to death when it comes to 115/124gr bullets. I use SAME powder charge of Bullseye/4.0grs=target Nirvana, no matter the bullet!

 

[N-frame-guy]

This is the only 9mm I'm loading for, so the COL that I've determined works via the plunk and function test will remain constant for my use with this bullet. I don't have that length handy here at the computer. Perhaps I shouldn't be married to the thought of using the BE86 with this relatively light-for-caliber bullet. I have other powders on hand, including Bullseye and American Select.

Still testing at this point and it may turn out that the other bullet weights are better suited to me and my BHP anyway.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Don't give up on the BE-86 in the 9mm pistol.

It will match Unique in the 115-135 gr loads in high fps.

Being finer grained, it is a lot better than Unique if using the large 147 gr bullet
and will get much higher fps out of your 9mm pistol.

With a 115-125 gr FMJ/Plated bullet try BE-86 at 5.0 & 5.5 grains before you give up on it.

My 3.5" with BE86 starts a 115 at 957 and a 124 FMJ at 935 for a light target load.
How slow do you need a load befor you "Squib" one ?

 

[muddocktor]

If you have other, faster powders you can use, then they would be more preferable than BE-86 for the velocities you are wanting to see. I've also found that BE-86 likes higher velocities and pressures and can pretty much be used in replacement of Power Pistol. For those 115 grain bullets, a powder such as Bullseye or Accurate #2 or 231/HP-38 would be better choices for a 115 grain 9MM at 900-950 ft/sec. BE-86 also works well in 45 ACP at the higher velocities and pressures.

 

[WR Moore]

Trying to pin down the burn rate on BE86 is a bit puzzling. In 9 mm.(and .357) I find it somewhat faster than Unique and a bit cleaner burning. With Berry 115 gr TC/FN I get 1200 f/s with 5.7 grains in 9 mm at an OAL of 1.090 in. The Remington 115gr JHP did 1185 f/s, same powder charge & OAL. A 124 gr Gold Dot over the same powder charge approaches 1200 but doesn't get there.

I agree that if you're looking for <1000 f/s, a faster powder is indicated.

 

[bigedp51]

9 MM Pistol Powders

9MM

Alliant BE-86
BE86

 

[Moe Mentum]

I use 5.0 grains of BE86 under a 124 or 115 grain bullet. Good target load.

 

[N-frame-guy]

I've been re-thinking the velocity aspect. Being new to coated bullets, I'm not confident where the line is to keep the leading out of the picture. Rule of thumb used to be (as I understood it) less than 1000 fps greatly reduced the leading potential with run of the mill lead bullets and your average shooter who didn't know the finer points of bullet fit, slugging the barrel, etc. Particularly with the soft swaged bullets from the major manufacturers. That's where my desired velocity level came from.
The more I read and muse, higher velocities with the coated bullets should be fine as I'm still not trying to wring out the very top end speeds, just looking for comfortable to hand, easy on the weapon, and acceptable accuracy. If I end up at 1100 fps, it will be fine, provided the coating prohibits any leading issues. I have decided to stay with the BE86 due to its fine metering qualities in this small cartridge, where tenths of grains matter in the finished product. It flows very nicely through my Harrell's measure. A few extra 10ths per load is not going to be an issue in the long run, compared to a faster burn rate powder. I don't expect to run large amounts of ammo through this as I prefer my revolvers at the range. I dislike searching out and picking up 9mm brass.
I've decided to start at the 5.0 level and work up in 2/10 increments to check for basic function and see if a node develops that meets my expectations. If I find something, I'll try on either side of it by 1/10 and call it good enough for my meager abilities.

 

[Nevada Ed]

98% of us chase 9mm brass or leave it on the ground unless..........

you have one of those fancy "Clip on" units that will catch your ejected cases for you.

I'm cheap and went to the dollor store and picked up a .99 cent kids butterfly net to catch my brass, after cutting off the long bamboo handle.

Have fun.

 

[Maurice H]

...I'm not confident where the line is to keep the leading out of the picture. Rule of thumb used to be (as I understood it) less than 1000 fps greatly reduced the leading potential with run of the mill lead bullets...

Bullet-to-bore fit isn't everything but it's about the most significant variable relative to leading. Much more so than velocity and greatly affects accuracy. Slugging a bbl is a simple process should you want to know the third decimal place.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I did not have BE-86 powder back when I tested my coated 9mm bullets.

However I did do a test with the new BE-86 with a "HAP" type bullet out of a 5" 9mm, that was 124 grs.

Since this was a test for a light target load that would funtion 100%, they were above 1,000 fps and trying to be around the 125 power factor, if it worked out.

You might also notice the difference that OAL plays, as seen with the one Green Dot loading, that was tested.

Many like a certain powder, to do their loading becaust they think it might be the best powder.
In this picture, there are a lot og good loads. Is your powder one of them?

Just another day with my toys.

 

[N-frame-guy]

Nice shooting; what was the testing distance? And how big a change on the COL of the Green Dot comparison?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Nice shooting; what was the testing distance? And how big a change on the COL of the Green Dot comparison?

If you look at the bottom of the picture it notes that the OAL for the loads was at 1.075"
Target #5 has a note that states a OAL of 1.10" was used.

This target was placed behind my chrony and the distance was around 30 feet.
I used a two hand grip with my wrist over a sand bag, to help this old man
that has bad eyes and shaky hands keep the bullets on the paper on off my "Machine" !!

In my pistol, green Dot at 1096 fps was a tac driver that plaed my bullets at .68" and at POA !!

Top FPS went to BE-86 at 1220 fps and the pedal was not floored, yet.

 

[N-frame-guy]

Duh, yes it does, right there in plain sight, too...sorry for not seeing that.

Wish I could shoot a group like any of those.

 

[N-frame-guy]

Update: I tried 5.0 up to 5.8 in 2 tenths increments with BE 86 but didn't find anything that I'd call acceptable grouping with the 115 grain RN.
I then loaded 5 each with Bullseye, starting at 3.9 up to 4.3 and had much better results. 4.1 or the 4.3 had the roundest groups so I'll load up the balance of what I have left of the sample pack with 4.1 grains and call it good for now.
Thanks for the help deciding on where to start and other powders to try.

 

[Funflyer]

Where do you think I can safely start with the 115's? I've seen 124's as low as 3.4 but haven't found much on the 115's in the lower speed I'm looking for. I know it's similar in rate to Unique but hesitate to substitute or use that data as a starting point. I have the latest Lyman cast bullet book but don't remember seeing BE86 listed there.

I use a lot of BE-86 in several calibers and have concluded that it performs best and is most accurate when loaded from 3/4 to max charge. Never had reliable function with any light loads either. 5.4 grains is my best plinking load using 115gn coated bullets. Those average 1070fps from my Shield and 1177fps from my 5" R1. Anything slower needs a faster powder or there's lots of unburned powder with terrible accuracy. Titegroup, Green-Dot, AA#2, Clays, 700x or Bullseye are what I use if I want to load sub-1000fps rounds.