Bean Bag

J

jim lock

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1)What are your thoughts and or experiencies of bean gags as a fisrt shot in a 12 ga. home defense weapon?
2) If one were to shoot a burglar in the *** with a bean bag on the way out of your house. Would this be considered deadly force?
Thanks in advance
Jim
 
Couple of quick thoughts:

1. Unless you have received specific training in the use of non-lethal defense weapons / rounds I would leave it alone.
2. Typically when using non-lethal weapons / rounds you have a partner paired with live rounds for a quick follow-up shot in case things go south really quickly.

I am not an attorney and cannot give legal advice but IMO, once the perp has turned his back and is leaving I am sure some under-employed legal eagle will consider this excessive use of force and push for criminal charges. You may also leave yourself open to a civil action since the confrontation is over once a party retreats and there is no more emanate threat present and the use of lethal force is no longer justified.

Shooting to protect property is a bad idea - you shoot to protect life.
 
I think these have a role, but for crowd control or deterrence (as noted above, with fully armed backup).

If you really need to discharge a firearm for defensive purposes, it will be justified with regular ammunition (and not at someone fleeing a confrontation).
 
Using a firearm is deadly force regardless of the ammo used.

I'd rather have a well placed shot that can stop than a less lethal round that may not.

Personally, I won't shoot someone over property as they are running away. Even if, lawfully, I have the right to.


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
First off, if I happen to find someone in my home at 2:00 a.m., I don't know if he's planning on killing me and my family or if he's just there to steal the toaster. How would you know?

If it is the former, I certainly don't want to pop him with a bean bag round. I want to eliminate the threat...completely.

A law enforcement friend of mine has used bean bag rounds before. And while they might initially knock the perp down for a moment, the guy is still alive and well and capable of doing harm.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to use bean bag rounds for home defense. And definitely not a good idea to shoot a burglar in the hindquarters as he's leaving your property.

Reminds me of an old guy in our town when I was growing up. He had his shotgun loaded with rock salt to keep kids out of his melon patch. Dumb idea all the way around. It's a miracle that some big teenage kid, after being shot in the caboose with rock salt, didn't rip that old Savage single-shot 12 gauge from old man Martin's hands and shove it up his *beunine canal sideways.

If you plan on using a shotgun for home defense, then by all means use it for home defense by utilizing the optimum round for your situation. And a bean bag round is far from the optimum round in my opinion.

(*Beunine canal: Pronounced bew-nine. A clean word, by the way, which means absolutely nothing. I just made it up. There's no such thing as a beunine canal. But, feel free to use your imagination.:D)
 
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I have my home defense pump loaded with a beanbag up first. I will only shoot if deadly force is justified. I will not shoot a fleeing thief that hasn't physically harmed anyone, not even with a beanbag. I do have the beanbag up first because even if legally justified I'd prefer to not kill some stupid 16 YOA juvenile.

Yeah, at close range a beanbag can be lethal but I'd like to give it a chance. If the message isn't made clear with the beanbag the next round that can be rapidly delivered won't be so kind. Yeah I know having the beanbag up first puts me and mine at a little greater risk but I'll take that small gamble. I really don't want to kill a kid, even if he/she is a dirt bag.

Yeah, I did have the in-service class and range session with beanbags back in the day, such as it was, which wasn't much. And yeah my beanbag rounds are that old.
 
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oink said:
I have my home defense pump loaded with a beanbag up first. I will only shoot if deadly force is justified. I will not shoot a fleeing thief that hasn't physically harmed anyone, not even with a beanbag. I do have the beanbag up first because even if legally justified I'd prefer to not kill some stupid 16 YOA juvenile.

Yeah, at close range a beanbag can be lethal but I'd like to give it a chance. If the message isn't made clear with the beanbag the next round that can be rapidly delivered won't be so kind. Yeah I know having the beanbag up first puts me and mine at a little greater risk but I'll take that small gamble. I really don't want to kill a kid, even if he/she is a dirt bag.

Yeah, I did have the in-service class and range session with beanbags back in the day, such as it was, which wasn't much. And yeah my beanbag rounds are that old.
Click to expand...
This......You've weighed all the options & explored the pros and cons. You've made a learned, intelligent decision. I commend you for that.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
No for all the reasons stated above. We were trained with them in LE. The use of them was always backed up with deadly force in case they did not work as designed or the threat suddenly changed. Also they have been know to cause serious bodily injury or death on occasion because of the location of the strike i.e., neck, throat and on rare occasions they have penetrated causing death when that was not the intended purpose.
 
Sorry, but my defensive firearms do not get loaded with bean bag rounds nor rubber bullets. I figure if someone is breaking into my home, they are not collecting for the Red Cross, but are there to do me harm. I want every advantage I can get and a stun round is not enough advantage in my opinion.


Just my dos centavos, take it for what it is worth.
 
Whether a crook/thug/low life is exiting or entering my home I want to stop him in his tracks. I don't think a bean bag will deter a determined punk! 6 rounds of 00 buck in my 870. Several other home defense weapons around the house loaded with the real thing too!
 
Lets play out a possible scenario.....................

You wake up to someone standing in your bedroom doorway.......

You grab and fire your shotgun to 'scare" the guy with a bean bag round (remember; you are the only one who know it's "just a bean bag round)......BANG!..... the 'visitor" feels the impact on his chest.....

He...... thinks " The _____ ____ just shot me!!!!!!"

He in anger; thinking he's been shot ........ returns fire.... oh lets say 5-10 rounds......................with real bullets.
 
Don't depend on bean bags. I've seen times where people hit with bean bags barely responded to the impact. It depends on an individual's tolerance of pain. Also depends on what they are wearing. A person wearing just a tshirt or the same person wearing a Carhart jacket.
If you were trained in the use of bean bags then you know that you always had a backup person with a firearm. There was a reason for that. It was because we all knew the bean bag impact didn't always make much of an impression.
 
No bean bags will be used by me for self-defense shooting, thank you.

If I deem it "time to shoot" - it's time for real ammo.
 
^^^What he said. Albuquerque PD shot a naked, screaming, sweating guy who was swinging an iron pipe at anyone who came near him 41 (yes, forty-one) times with the Def-Tec bean bag rounds - he never flinched even though several of the projectiles penetrated his skin. He was only 'controlled' when he went unconscious (cocaine-induced psychosis) and died.

A fundamental mistake decent, rational people make is thinking others are decent, rational people.
 
Only the 1st round is a beanbag. There will be a second round chambered and back on target instantly as a reflex. Assuming no panic shortstroke of course. I just hope I can contain reflex enough to not send the second round off automatically without reevaluating.

If the bad guy is standing in the bedroom doorway he's has the gun captured behind the door. I'll have to go for the 9mm on the nightstand.

I have no misconceptions about the consistent stopping power of any less -lethal weapon. I've seen plenty of failures with mace, stunguns, pepper spray, tasers and yes impact weapons. Seen a few outstanding successes too.

I feel good about my 1st round beanbag decision.
 
I don't remember the exact scenario, but several years ago a subject was killed by LEO who thought they were firing a bean bag round. That is why non-lethal rounds are only used in a separate marked arm. Way to easy to make a mistake even with training. If, God forbid you have to discharge a firearm shoot with conventional ammo till the threat has stopped.
 
It's deadly force--capable of causing death or serious permanent injury.

If you're justified in using it, by definition, you're under grave and immediate threat. The guy you're using it on is capable of killing/maiming you, has indicated he intends to do so, and you have no other alternatives to force. Why are you screwing around with beanbags, then?

If you're not justified in using deadly force, then you really shouldn't be slinging beanbags at people.

In your scenario, yes, you'd be going to jail.
 
Maybe not but I still don't won't to kill the neighborhood kid and I'll assume a little risk to possibly avoid that outcome. They'd have to be a ninja to react further before I'd have the next round chambered. Yeah there may be the odd ninja around, who knows. I may have a little John Wayne syndrome but I did spend a fair bit of time working areas with sometimes some pretty distant backup, where you were expected to handle your own calls. Solo building searches, alarms, domestics, bar calls, fights and etc anyone? But times have changed and that's not so much here now days and not for me at all. I'm sure there are plenty here who've been in the same working conditions. I'm sure I'm capable but I'd really prefer not to kill anyone if reasonably (yeah IMHO) avoidable.
 
Considered beanbags once but passed. If I have to shoot in self defense in my home, it’s for keeps. I must put the threat down immediately to protect my family. We have nowhere to retreat to. No other options. I’m the last line of defense.

I won’t condemn those that do as long as they know what they are doing.
 
A well placed fastball with a one serving can of beans (just ask my ex wife) would make the same statement to a fleeing felon as a shotgun fired bean bag and keep you out of litigation for shooting when the threat has ended. BTW, she didnt throw it at me.
Jim
 
oink said:
Well as I won't be shooting anybody with anything unless lethal force is legally justified that's moot.
Click to expand...

That sums it up. If the extremely unlikely worst happens and I'm forced to employ a shotgun, no beanbags or rubber bullets will be involved.
 
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