Bekaert questions

[valbehaved]

Hello, everyone:
I came across a super nice .22/32 model serial number 163xxx.
The left grip is stamped on the bottom...
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[JSR III]

If you do a search using "Bekeart" you will come up with more information than you probably wanted to know.

The first batch of .22/32's with stock assembly sequence numbers were numbered in the 138,XXX and 139,XXX range.

The second block shows up in the 163,XXX and 164,XXX range and the third 1,000 appear to be in the 164,XXX, 207,XXX and 208,XXX range. The highest stock sequence number in my database is 2398 and belongs to gun 208,403. The third block includes the 490 guns shipped to M.W. Robinson in NYC that fall between 207,926 and 208,416.

The next serial range showing up in my database is in the 220,4XX range but I have no way of knowing if any of the third block of 1,000 stock numbers went that high. Since there were still 600 potential numbers left after 2398 at gun 208,403 it is highly possible that if they really did use up all 3,000 numbers, as has been reported, they would be on guns with a number above 208,416.

 

[valbehaved]

Thank you, James!
That helps a lot.
Val

 

[valbehaved]

Now, another question...
If the gun actually letters to Bekeart, how would affect its value, compared to lettering to a different place? The gun is about 95-97% original blue.

 

[brigham33]

I sold an original Bekeart about 18 months ago, it was 70% condition or so. Sold for around $800 on GB. I figured that was about double its' value as just any early 70% 22/32. My estimate of high condition but not pristine 22/32's is probably around $700-800. Using the formula from my sale that would put a 95% actual Bekeart at about $1500.

That all sounds logical but really is just a wild guess.... There are others here with more experience that may offer a more educated estimate.

Rick

 

[Hondo44]

Hello, everyone:
I came across a super nice .22/32 model serial number 163xxx.
The left grip is stamped 2071 on the bottom...
I thought the serial number on the gun is too late to be one of the 3000 made with numbered grips...
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

Nice find!

Oh no, clearly in the 3rd class of Bekeart guns. The numbered grips go well beyond #208000. Recognize the Bekearts shared the serial number range with the .32s.

The four classification of "True" Bekeart Models in order of their collectability and value are summarized below from the SCS&W, 3rd edition and other sources:

In April 25, 1911 an order for the 1st production run of 1050 serial #s, only 1,044 made Model 1911, Bekeart models began in the serial range of # 138226 thru # 139275, completed on July 10, 1911. Only 1044 revolvers were actually completed/shipped and their grips were #’d 1 - 1044.

1st classification of "True" Bekearts are the “Models 1911 22/32 Bekeart HFTs” are the 294 (lately revised from 292 by Roy Jinks) from that original production run within the above range that were actually shipped to Bekeart.

2nd class of Bekearts are the remainder of the guns in that 1044 production run and serial range that went to other dealers.

3rd class of Bekearts is the remainder with grip numbers from #1045 to #3000, shipped to Bekeart or not, after which grip #s were discontinued, but there is no official factory 'list' of serial numbers for this class, albeit there are accumulated partial lists from lettered guns; the grip number and with grip serial number matching the gun, being sufficient to identify them along with a factory letter.

4th and last class, although least valuable or desirable, is any “22/32 Heavy Frame Target” from after the 1st production run that 'letters' as being shipped to Bekeart Sporting goods in S.F., since there is no official serial number list for this class.

 

[JSR III]

Although I hold Hondo in the highest respect as to his expertise in S&W history, I don't necessarily agree with his or Supica/Nahas's intrepretation as to the order of Bekeartness.

Guns 163,191, 163,662 and 163,698 are reported to have shipped to Bekeart but are not part of the 1,044 or 1,050 originally produced in the initial run. They do have stock sequence numbers on the left stock panel and I place them in the second major category of Bekeartness. Not part of the 294 that went in the first 6 shipments and not part of the first run of 1,050 but did ship to Bekeart. Again, my personal opinion and not necessarily anyone elses.

I base this on the fact that if Bekeart had not come up with the suggestion of a .22 on a .32 frame, we wouldn't be having this discussion. To me, any gun shipped to Bekeart is more of a "true Bekeart" than any other category. One of the first 294 being first and others shipped after that category two.

As for the first 294, those guns IMHO break down even further into 6 sub categories as to which shipment they went out in.

I own 8 Bekearts with one from the first shipment and one from the fourth shipment. I personally, value one from the first shipment as a higher value than one from the fourth, but that's me.

I also have in my collection the tool room sample that was made up showing a .22 barrel and .22 cylinder fitted to a .32 frame. I value that piece even higher than any of the actual Bekeart produced guns.

So for what it's worth, that's my take on the subject.

 

[valbehaved]

Thank you!

 

[opoefc]

valbehaved, Please see PM. Ed.

 

[Jimmy1964]

I posted info about mine before, but lost the thread. I wasn't sure where it fell in as far as the pecking order.

138793 is on the frame in between the grips
758 is on the wood grips
659 on the yoke

There is also a number of 138497 written on the bill from the gun smith that I had clean it up for me. Not sure where that was found.

 

[JSR III]

Valbehaved, in looking at my database again, 2071 would be a very high stock sequence number for a 163,XXX gun. Not saying it's not possible the way S&W works but 2046 goes with gun 164,112. Most of the 163,XXX guns have stock sequence numbers between 1000 and 1800.