I have a number of pistol cases with berdan, two hole primers, and would like to use them as reloads. Is there a tool made especially for this task. If not, how do you de-prime the case. Is it even possible.
Berdan Primer Cases
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RCBS makes a Berdan depriming tool (# 9525). Not the easiest thing to do, but they do work, at least for rifle cases. I've also heard of hydraulic depriming - fill the case with water, insert a close fitting rod, and give it a whack with a hammer. Always sounded messy to me, but maybe fun on a hot summer day.
RCBS Berdan Decapping Tool
Have used this with military surplus 308 brass to get through a couple of shortages. Works pretty good, stock up on pins.
Hardest part now may be getting the correct berdan primers? Have never reloaded berdan primed pistol cases.
If you are loading a common pistol caliber, would try for used/new boxer primed cases if possible.
Primers | FedArm
Have no experience with Fedarm, but they list Berdan primers in 5000 lots
Have used this with military surplus 308 brass to get through a couple of shortages. Works pretty good, stock up on pins.
Hardest part now may be getting the correct berdan primers? Have never reloaded berdan primed pistol cases.
If you are loading a common pistol caliber, would try for used/new boxer primed cases if possible.
Primers | FedArm
Have no experience with Fedarm, but they list Berdan primers in 5000 lots
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I have somewhere a set of tools like the Lee primer pocket cleaners but longer that were made to cut the anvil(?) out of Berdan cases. They were carbide cutters on bottom only. Still have 'em somewhere. I remember using them on a few cases and repriming with Boxers. I also think that some berdan pockets were smaller/larger than some Boxers primers. The ones I tried worked fine but been so long I don't even remember the caliber. Ot was some odd thing for a Drilling I had...so no real HIGH pressure. At the time Alcan was about the only supplier for Berdan primers and they were not always in stock. They also had 9mm Rimfire shorshells for my old Win 36
Berdan primers are as hard to find if not more difficult and more expensive than Boxer. But you may run into a stash to use.
Sizes are different from standard Boxer primers.
Depriming Berdan was commonly done and still is with a 'pick tool' Made correctly it is simple and fast to use. Very efficient. A small chisel edge mounted in a nut cracker type reloading tool spears the spent primer at a slight angle as the tool is closed on a fired case.
Opening the tool again pulls the fired primer from the pocket and leaves the case with it's integrel anvil in tact.
At one time it was thought that the use of hydraulic pressure was the key. Several tools and makeshift ways to fill the spent case with water or even oil were made. Then a (very) close fitting plug in the case neck was given a wack with a hammer and the spent primer was to exit the case by way of hydo-power into a hollow base die the case is sitting in.
Sounds great if everything is really made right.
The usual results are water or oil everywhere,,but generally the primer is ejected as well.
Recutting or even swaging existing Berdan primer pockets to standard Boxer size is done.
Swaging is usually the same set up as when swaging the staked Military primer pockets. But it takes some extra power of course.
Then a central flash hole has to be drilled as the swaged flattened Berdan anvil flows and fills the bottom of the Berdan primer pocket during the process and seals those Berdan flash holes,,or that's the plan.
Some Swage to Boxer will include a punch to make that Boxer central flash hole as well instead of a drilling process.
Some work for sure. It was popular when converting odd caliber rifle brass of overseas origins like Berdan primed 7.62 Russian, 8x50R and 8x56R Austrian, 8mm Lebel, etc.
Even drrilling the Berdan primer pocket right thru to accept a standard #209 US Shotshell primer was and still is done. This for power pressure loads only, but it does work well and I have done this in the past.
7.62 Russian I used to leave the spent Berdan primer in place. Lightly skim cut the face of it off leaving the ring of the wall of the primer still in place.
Then run the case through a standard LR Primer Swage.
That flattened the Berdan anvil, fill the Berdan double flash holes and swaged the remaining Berdan primer wall ring out to take a standard LR primer pocket.
Drill flash hole and we had reloadable 7.62 Russian brass for our $15 rifles at the time.
The primer pocket as modified would stand up to 5 or 6 reloading.
Things have certainly changed..!
Sizes are different from standard Boxer primers.
Depriming Berdan was commonly done and still is with a 'pick tool' Made correctly it is simple and fast to use. Very efficient. A small chisel edge mounted in a nut cracker type reloading tool spears the spent primer at a slight angle as the tool is closed on a fired case.
Opening the tool again pulls the fired primer from the pocket and leaves the case with it's integrel anvil in tact.
At one time it was thought that the use of hydraulic pressure was the key. Several tools and makeshift ways to fill the spent case with water or even oil were made. Then a (very) close fitting plug in the case neck was given a wack with a hammer and the spent primer was to exit the case by way of hydo-power into a hollow base die the case is sitting in.
Sounds great if everything is really made right.
The usual results are water or oil everywhere,,but generally the primer is ejected as well.
Recutting or even swaging existing Berdan primer pockets to standard Boxer size is done.
Swaging is usually the same set up as when swaging the staked Military primer pockets. But it takes some extra power of course.
Then a central flash hole has to be drilled as the swaged flattened Berdan anvil flows and fills the bottom of the Berdan primer pocket during the process and seals those Berdan flash holes,,or that's the plan.
Some Swage to Boxer will include a punch to make that Boxer central flash hole as well instead of a drilling process.
Some work for sure. It was popular when converting odd caliber rifle brass of overseas origins like Berdan primed 7.62 Russian, 8x50R and 8x56R Austrian, 8mm Lebel, etc.
Even drrilling the Berdan primer pocket right thru to accept a standard #209 US Shotshell primer was and still is done. This for power pressure loads only, but it does work well and I have done this in the past.
7.62 Russian I used to leave the spent Berdan primer in place. Lightly skim cut the face of it off leaving the ring of the wall of the primer still in place.
Then run the case through a standard LR Primer Swage.
That flattened the Berdan anvil, fill the Berdan double flash holes and swaged the remaining Berdan primer wall ring out to take a standard LR primer pocket.
Drill flash hole and we had reloadable 7.62 Russian brass for our $15 rifles at the time.
The primer pocket as modified would stand up to 5 or 6 reloading.
Things have certainly changed..!
ReloadforFun
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If they are common caliber cases, much easier to replace them with Boxer primer cases.
DWalt
Member
Main problem will be finding Berdan primers. If they can be found, they will probably be $$$. Also I think they come in different sizes, so you will need to know what size is needed. I have removed Berdan primers hydraulically just using the neck expander. I have also drilled out Berdan primers and replaced them with shotshell primers. It is not as easy as it sounds, and having a lathe helps. If you do that, use very light loads only.
I don’t know what caliber Berdan cases you have as you did not say. I would never advise messing with Berdan primed cases unless there is absolutely no way to get boxer primed cases in that size or to convert a more common case having boxer primers to what size you need.
I don’t know what caliber Berdan cases you have as you did not say. I would never advise messing with Berdan primed cases unless there is absolutely no way to get boxer primed cases in that size or to convert a more common case having boxer primers to what size you need.
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I gave reloading Berdan brass a try several years ago. I deprimed via the hydraulic method and yes, messy! I searched for Berdan primers and at the time could not find any for rifle calibers. Played with Boxer primers (removed anvil and tried seating, some stayed in place some didn't). But I was just experimented, a "Hmmm, I wonder if I can..." exercise. Definitely not worth the effort. It might be easier to convert Berdan brass to use Boxer primers...
DWalt
Member
There aren’t many handgun caliber cases, even metrics, that can’t be readily found with Boxer primers or fairly easily converted from available cases unless it is a really oddball foreign caliber.
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Handloading is as much about learning skills, if not more so, as it is about cost savings over factory ammo.
So, learning how to work with Berdan cases and primers is a worthy endeavor.
Here's an easy, fast and cheap way that doesn't make a mess:
-Remove the decapper assembly from your resizing die and screw it in to your press upside down, so the case opening is facing up.
-Lightly lube a case a drop it in to the die.
-Use a very sharp steel awl and place the tip in the primer indentation, angling the awl about 30 degrees off of the upright position.
-With a sharp (but not heavy!) whack of a hammer, puncture a hole into the primer. Depending on how your awl tip shaped, you'll hopefully find you can use it to pry out the old primer, just like a bottle cap.
A couple caveats....
Make sure to angle the awl so you don't damage the anvil in the primer pocket.
Don't hit the awl too hard or you might jam the brass into the die. If so, depending on your brand of die, you can stick a pencil into the now upside down hole for the decapper and pop the case out by hand or with the aid of the press ram.
This is not much slower than if you decap a Boxer primed case as a separate operation.
I don't care for cheap copper colored Chinese or Russian cases.
But, many other Berdan cases are very fine quality, ie: 8,15x46r for old Schuetzen rifles, etc.
Enjoy!
So, learning how to work with Berdan cases and primers is a worthy endeavor.
Here's an easy, fast and cheap way that doesn't make a mess:
-Remove the decapper assembly from your resizing die and screw it in to your press upside down, so the case opening is facing up.
-Lightly lube a case a drop it in to the die.
-Use a very sharp steel awl and place the tip in the primer indentation, angling the awl about 30 degrees off of the upright position.
-With a sharp (but not heavy!) whack of a hammer, puncture a hole into the primer. Depending on how your awl tip shaped, you'll hopefully find you can use it to pry out the old primer, just like a bottle cap.
A couple caveats....
Make sure to angle the awl so you don't damage the anvil in the primer pocket.
Don't hit the awl too hard or you might jam the brass into the die. If so, depending on your brand of die, you can stick a pencil into the now upside down hole for the decapper and pop the case out by hand or with the aid of the press ram.
This is not much slower than if you decap a Boxer primed case as a separate operation.
I don't care for cheap copper colored Chinese or Russian cases.
But, many other Berdan cases are very fine quality, ie: 8,15x46r for old Schuetzen rifles, etc.
Enjoy!
cgt4570
SWCA Member
When a friend and I were first experimenting with Berdan's about 10 (maybe more) years ago, he put together some 'hydraulic' depriming kits. Fill the case with water, put a properly sized wooden dowel in the case neck, then smack it with a hammer. Primer is out. Let case dry, then re-prime and load as normal.
This was when some weird European stuff was hard to find here, like 7.5 Swiss. It worked, but then the ammo became commonplace in the states and no longer worth the trouble. I still have a few thou large rifle Berdan primers for future experiments.
This was when some weird European stuff was hard to find here, like 7.5 Swiss. It worked, but then the ammo became commonplace in the states and no longer worth the trouble. I still have a few thou large rifle Berdan primers for future experiments.
Casual Smith Nut
Member
Ha! While reloading for 45 acp the other day I ran across these two cases… felt the de-capping ram stroke come to a complete stop a little early and thought “huh?”
They went in the trash. Must have come from scrounged range brass.
They went in the trash. Must have come from scrounged range brass.
Attachments
gwpercle
Member
Finding Berdan Primers is the tricky part ... ordinary Boxer primers will not work in Berdan pockets .
They can be changed but to me it's more trouble than it's worth .
I keep and use Berdan to make dummy cases for die adjustment , display or cut down to make powder scoops ...
anything else I can think of except for reloading ...
Unless it is for some Exotic caliber I can't get any other brass for ... Years ago I reloaded some but Berdan primers could be purchased and there is a decapping method involving a case full of water , a tight fitting neck plug and a mallet ... but it will get you wet !
Gary
They can be changed but to me it's more trouble than it's worth .
I keep and use Berdan to make dummy cases for die adjustment , display or cut down to make powder scoops ...
anything else I can think of except for reloading ...
Unless it is for some Exotic caliber I can't get any other brass for ... Years ago I reloaded some but Berdan primers could be purchased and there is a decapping method involving a case full of water , a tight fitting neck plug and a mallet ... but it will get you wet !
Gary
DWalt
Member
I was re-forming .284 Winchester cases to 7.5 Swiss back in the late 1960s. They worked OK. There is not that much difference between them. I remember Boxer primed Norma 7.5 cases and loaded ammunition were available in the early 1970s.
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My father thought it was hilarious to give a handful of Berdan 9mm cases to a shooting buddy at the range and say hey I just picked these up, I think they're yours, you want them? This was in the early days of reloading 9mm here - everyone always looked inside the case. He usually got a disgusted look and the shells were thrown into the brush.
I was given a glass jar of what were said to be Berdan Primers of unkn size/type.
They looked awful newish to me but not one to refuse gifts,,I of course took them along with several other glass containers of LR,SR and LR primers. Those were marked.
I looked thru those'Berdan' primers and inside was a partial end label from a CCI primer packet.
What the primers are is SHotShell 'reloading' primers,,,used to reload the primer itself.
A somewhat popular effort in the last mid century era and before. Saved you another 1/2cent or so.
A small press for your bench,,you took the fired 'Battery Cap' shotshell primer (like a common 209,,but then we had propretary sizes like Remington 57).
The press would punch the primer itself with the separate flat anvil out of the 'Cap.
You then would take one of these Berdan looking primers ( they have no anvil) and the decapped spade shaped anvil from the fired primer and reassemble those componenets back into the 'Cap'.
The same press used to then reseat the 3 comp back together to give you a brand new primer!
Maybe I'll just stick w/ regular 209's for now.
But things may get real bad, you never know.
Imagine reloading 1000 primers first, to be used in reloading up 1000 rds of your favorite shotshell.
Here's a pic of the grenade packaged primers plus one of the other giftings. Some Frankford Arsenal .45acp primers,,1939
The latter likely will get used the way things are going. Some hot soapy water will clean any corrosive thoughts away .
Primers is Primers..
Here's what Mr Google says about FA70 primer compound..
'FA-70 primer mix is corrosive. This primer mix was adopted 19 Aug. 1918 and was used until it was replaced in 1952'
They looked awful newish to me but not one to refuse gifts,,I of course took them along with several other glass containers of LR,SR and LR primers. Those were marked.
I looked thru those'Berdan' primers and inside was a partial end label from a CCI primer packet.
What the primers are is SHotShell 'reloading' primers,,,used to reload the primer itself.
A somewhat popular effort in the last mid century era and before. Saved you another 1/2cent or so.
A small press for your bench,,you took the fired 'Battery Cap' shotshell primer (like a common 209,,but then we had propretary sizes like Remington 57).
The press would punch the primer itself with the separate flat anvil out of the 'Cap.
You then would take one of these Berdan looking primers ( they have no anvil) and the decapped spade shaped anvil from the fired primer and reassemble those componenets back into the 'Cap'.
The same press used to then reseat the 3 comp back together to give you a brand new primer!
Maybe I'll just stick w/ regular 209's for now.
But things may get real bad, you never know.
Imagine reloading 1000 primers first, to be used in reloading up 1000 rds of your favorite shotshell.
Here's a pic of the grenade packaged primers plus one of the other giftings. Some Frankford Arsenal .45acp primers,,1939
The latter likely will get used the way things are going. Some hot soapy water will clean any corrosive thoughts away .
Primers is Primers..
Here's what Mr Google says about FA70 primer compound..
'FA-70 primer mix is corrosive. This primer mix was adopted 19 Aug. 1918 and was used until it was replaced in 1952'
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DWalt
Member
I’m guessing that it was over 30 years ago when I came into several hundred rounds of French .45 ACP ammunition with corrosive Berdan primers. The only Berdan-primed .45ACP I remember seeing, but it is probable that there are others. I have some Israeli TZZ headstamped .45 ACP, but it has Boxer primers.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Major George Nonte (sp) in one of his Cartridge conversion articles talked of Large Berdan primer pockets being shimmed with small brass bushings (made from hobby sizes of brass tube) and silver soldiered in place. I think I used 2-part clear epoxy a time or two.
I have 100 virgin Eley cases for 450 3 1/4" NE and 500 of the correct primer. This was the "Most Powerful" sporting arms primer while in production. The Federal 215 primer was made to replace it.
When using Berdan primers, you need the proper diameter and the proper strength! Some of the big old cases that were "Smokeless (aka Nitro) for Black Powder" rounds used enormous amounts of low power smokeless powder and required what we would call a "Magnum" primer.
Ivan
I have 100 virgin Eley cases for 450 3 1/4" NE and 500 of the correct primer. This was the "Most Powerful" sporting arms primer while in production. The Federal 215 primer was made to replace it.
When using Berdan primers, you need the proper diameter and the proper strength! Some of the big old cases that were "Smokeless (aka Nitro) for Black Powder" rounds used enormous amounts of low power smokeless powder and required what we would call a "Magnum" primer.
Ivan
